Is Easter Pagan?

[grafted]

(07-09-2010 09:13 AM)Vic Wrote:  Grafted not to split hairs here, but you said, "yes we are Hebrew." Most actual Jews say they are Jews if they are of Jewish descent. People in HR will at times refer to themselves as being Hebrew. So, why don't you call yourself a Jew if you are of actual provable Jewish heritage? Or are you in fact referring to HR thought in that gentiles become 'hebrews', something which Michael Rood for one taught.

The reason I use the word Hebrew is because we are not from the tribe of Judah, (hence Jew,) but are Ephrayim, aka Ashkenazi Messianics, with current relatives in central and eastern EU, one in Lebanon, and a few in northern Israel, (surprise!) I have lived in Germany myself, (stationed there for a time,) and spent time with relatives there when not on-duty.
We do not follow the prime-time style HRM mouth-pieces, and in all honesty I find a lot of what they have to say to be laughable; ref: sales gimmick.

Hope this clears it up a little for you.

[sheep wrecked]

(07-17-2010 05:36 PM)grafted Wrote:  

(07-09-2010 09:13 AM)Vic Wrote:  Grafted not to split hairs here, but you said, "yes we are Hebrew." Most actual Jews say they are Jews if they are of Jewish descent. People in HR will at times refer to themselves as being Hebrew. So, why don't you call yourself a Jew if you are of actual provable Jewish heritage? Or are you in fact referring to HR thought in that gentiles become 'hebrews', something which Michael Rood for one taught.

The reason I use the word Hebrew is because we are not from the tribe of Judah, (hence Jew,) but are Ephrayim, aka Ashkenazi Messianics, with current relatives in central and eastern EU, one in Lebanon, and a few in northern Israel, (surprise!) I have lived in Germany myself, (stationed there for a time,) and spent time with relatives there when not on-duty.
We do not follow the prime-time style HRM mouth-pieces, and in all honesty I find a lot of what they have to say to be laughable; ref: sales gimmick.

Hope this clears it up a little for you.

"Jew" is a term that encompasses all 12 tribes. Israelis and international Jews, in the USA for instance, do not designate tribal affiliation but refer to themselves by sect - orthodox, reform, conservative, chasidic, etc. Jewish is a nationality [all of Israel] not just of the tribe of Judah.

You may separate yourself from HR in your mind, but what you post in regard to your beliefs and practices line up favorably with HR. One can be on the fringe of HR thinking they are "set apart" from all the "gimmicks", but in reality your lifestyle and religious practice is only differ in presentation, not in reality.

It is understandable that you are drawn to HR, as I was at one time. It is a very compelling doctrine which appears to pacify one's desire to please God. Unfortunately, the Gospel is not about the Law, but about Jesus Christ who came to give us a better covenant. Our goal on this forum is to help people understand exactly what they are getting themselves into by attempting to keep the Mosaic Law.

We all have to make a choice what direction our service to God takes. For myself, having suffered terribly under the yoke of the Law, it is my heart's desire to expose that yoke for what it is. I do not have a "personal vendetta" against you and I apologize for offending you. My zeal for the truth and my experiences appear to give me a "raw edge". I promise to be "kinder and gentler"

[grafted]

You are not understanding, perhaps because you have only been exposed to the HRM?
I am not drawn to HRM, nor do I care for their message. I am a Hebrew by blood, not by some flop of an HRM salesman. That I, and many more that I know, choose to specifically identify ourselves as Ephrayim or Ashkenazic, is our right to do so, (and you will find plenty in the US, and in uniform who do as well). That there are those who choose not to break it down is up to them. I have not broken it down before and used the simple term of Jew or Jewish for those who would not understand my simplifying it.

That you believe me to be yoked is frankly absurd. I am not yoked by anything. That I choose to practice a specific way in honor of the Father is our way. In all honesty, who are you, a supposed servant of to judge another servant of in the way they give honor?
Are you somehow placed as the judge of other servants, or somehow set above by some special decree which we should all be made aware of? Really think about it before pointing the finger.

[sheep wrecked]

(07-17-2010 09:23 PM)grafted Wrote:  You are not understanding, perhaps because you have only been exposed to the HRM?
I am not drawn to HRM, nor do I care for their message. I am a Hebrew by blood, not by some flop of an HRM salesman. That I, and many more that I know, choose to specifically identify ourselves as Ephrayim or Ashkenazic, is our right to do so, (and you will find plenty in the US, and in uniform who do as well). That there are those who choose not to break it down is up to them. I have not broken it down before and used the simple term of Jew or Jewish for those who would not understand my simplifying it.

That you believe me to be yoked is frankly absurd. I am not yoked by anything. That I choose to practice a specific way in honor of the Father is our way. In all honesty, who are you, a supposed servant of to judge another servant of in the way they give honor?
Are you somehow placed as the judge of other servants, or somehow set above by some special decree which we should all be made aware of? Really think about it before pointing the finger.

I am curious why you refer to yourself as Ephrayim/Askenazic. Ephrayim is no longer a tribe and the Askenazi is a sect of Judaism, not a tribe, and incorporates all tribes within that definition. All the tribes were gathered as one in the OT and became one entity - Jewish.

The NT calls the Mosaic Law/Torah a yoke. This is what I also experienced when I kept the Law. I am simply aligning what I believe to Scripture.

Act 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Gal 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
Gal 5:8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
Gal 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

[melmartinez01]

It would be easier to answer if I knew what exactly was expected of me by the Almighty Creator of the Universe and everything in it.

[Mary]

(07-27-2010 09:31 AM)melmartinez01 Wrote:  It would be easier to answer if I knew what exactly was expected of me by the Almighty Creator of the Universe and everything in it.

Mark 12: 20 -30
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

---

While we sit around discussing whether easter is pagan or not, there are Christians out there who cannot celebrate any festival, feast or holy day for any number of reasons. If we are not following God's commandments, whatever we do will not glorify Him.

Colossians 3: 1 -17
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him..

[sheep wrecked]

Mary!!!!

[Dredge]

If I were on Jeopardy and given the answers in this post I would say the question is "Is Easter for Christians?".

To a pagan Easter is pagan. I once overheard a statement from a pagan saying he wished Christians would just leave their holidays alone.

To the discussion I would like to add this Scripture:

1Co 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Many have said it is a matter of the heart and if Jesus Christ is glorified, which could also be used by those who choose to remember using a modified Passover. To them I add this Scripture:

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

[truth pick]

(07-31-2010 12:55 PM)Dredge Wrote:  If I were on Jeopardy and given the answers in this post I would say the question is "Is Easter for Christians?".

To a pagan Easter is pagan. I once overheard a statement from a pagan saying he wished Christians would just leave their holidays alone.

To the discussion I would like to add this Scripture:

1Co 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Many have said it is a matter of the heart and if Jesus Christ is glorified, which could also be used by those who choose to remember using a modified Passover. To them I add this Scripture:

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

I think Christians know Christ crucified and glorify Him on His Resurrection. Just because they label it as Easter I am not sure why you think it's pagan? Easter means springtime

I have kind of weird question though. How is "modifying" Passover keeping God's commandments?

[Dredge]

(08-01-2010 10:36 AM)truth pick Wrote:  

(07-31-2010 12:55 PM)Dredge Wrote:  If I were on Jeopardy and given the answers in this post I would say the question is "Is Easter for Christians?".

To a pagan Easter is pagan. I once overheard a statement from a pagan saying he wished Christians would just leave their holidays alone.

To the discussion I would like to add this Scripture:

1Co 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Many have said it is a matter of the heart and if Jesus Christ is glorified, which could also be used by those who choose to remember using a modified Passover. To them I add this Scripture:

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

I think Christians know Christ crucified and glorify Him on His Resurrection. Just because they label it as Easter I am not sure why you think it's pagan? Easter means springtime

I have kind of weird question though. How is "modifying" Passover keeping God's commandments?

Yes, most Christians know Christ crucified and glorify Him on His resurrection, but are only Christians viewing this? I merely
wanted to point out that Christ's death and resurrection was the most important thing, thus the Scripture:

1Co 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

I never said what I thought of Easter, I only commented what a pagan said, trying to show that Easter means different things to different people.

Webster's 1913 Dictionary definds Easter as:

\Eas"ter\, n. [AS. e['a]ster, e['a]stran, paschal feast,
Easter; akin to G. ostern; fr. AS. E['a]stre, a goddess of
light or spring, in honor of whom a festival was celebrated
in April; whence this month was called in AS.
E['a]sterm[=o]na[eth]. From the root of E. east. See {East}.]

It goes on to say:

An annual church festival commemorating Christ's
resurrection, and occurring on Sunday, the second day
after Good Friday. It corresponds to the pasha or passover
of the Jews, and most nations still give it this name
under the various forms of pascha, pasque, p[^a]que, or
pask.

With this note:

Note: Easter day, on which the rest of the movable feasts
depend, is always the first Sunday after the fourteenth
day of the calendar moon which (fourteenth day) falls
on, or next after, the 21st of March, according to the
rules laid down for the construction of the calendar;
so that if the fourteenth day happen on a Sunday,
Easter day is the Sunday after.

Easton Bible Dictionary gives this definition

originally a Saxon word (Eostre), denoting a goddess of the Saxons, in honour of whom sacrifices were offered
about the time of the Passover. Hence the name came to be given to the festival of the Resurrection of Christ,
which occured at the time of the Passover. In the early English versions this word was frequently used as the
translation of the Greek pascha (the Passover). When the Authorized Version (1611) was formed, the word
"passover" was used in all passages in which this word pascha occurred, except in Act 12:4. In the Revised
Version the proper word, "passover," is always used.

Easter was Christianized when it was set on a specific day of the week (Sunday) instead of a set time after the new moon
which would put it on a different weekday each year just as Passover is today.

Sorry for being vague on the last part of my statement. There are those who state keeping the holidays are a matter of the heart
and Christ being glorified. To them I ask why it that different from those who keep the feasts for the same reason.

I used "modified" passover because the passover cannot be kept as originally given.

I added this Scripture for those who keep the feasts:

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments,
and abide in his love.

To me states that thru Christ's keeping of the Father's commandments of the Mosaic covenant I am given the lighter yoke of keeping Christ's
commandments of the new covenant.