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redsleigh · 04-09-2011, 06:52 PM

(04-09-2011 04:29 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote: Hi Redsleigh
I am not catholic so whatever the catholic church did is nothing to do with me directly.If they did do what you say then it is wrong howver I am familiar with th typical catholic response to this and it is that they allowed certain people to keep their traditions and kind of christianise them.It is hard to say in a few words what I think of that since in one way I do understand it to an extent.Since in Christ all is now clean and He made all things new.In a world which has undergone a few millenia virtually everything is now going to have a pagan association if we look for it.So personally I take the view that unless a custom is glaringly obviously pagan and connected with evil it is ok to be done if done with a pure intent of heart.Since what happened with the catholic church is something that people who are long dead and gone I really have no way of knowing what really happened and thus be able to judge properly.

As to the reference to Deuteronomy and its relation to Easter I assume you mean the current celebrations of Easter.I do not see why celebrating and reflecting on the events leading up to Christ's death and resurrection are contradicting Deuteronomy.
Even so, the Deuteronomy verse,which is binding under the Mosaic Covenant and refers to the Israelite's behaviour in the Land that God was giving them CONDITIONALLY,is in no way binding upon a christian today.

Exactly what do you mean by the land that God was giving them CONDITIONALLY?

When you follow tradition for so many centuries the origin of these traditions obviously gets lost as it has for Easter. Even the origin of ALL protestant faiths is from the Catholic church! So, even though you might not be Catholic, most of the teachings of the Catholic church are still in the Protestant churches. Martin Luther, who started the first protestant church, only pointed out we are saved through Grace by faith not works! Grace not being new as if God hadn't shown Grace to the Israelites he would have wiped them out too as he did to Sodom and Gomorrah! They definitely weren't the most obedient bunch! He kept the rest of the teachings of the Catholic church such as the Trinity, Sunday worship, Easter and Christmas etc.

I was a practicing Christian (Lutheran) for 30 years but always had questions, one of which was the celebration of Easter. No one I know (including the pastor) knew exactly what the eggs and bunnies had to do with Easter. That's because they don't, they are from pagan traditions way before Christ! Now I check everything against God's Word and there is nothing in there about Easter traditions or setting aside any special day to celebrate Christ's sacrifice and resurrection. We are told by Christ to remember him at Passover when he instituted the bread and wine as his body and blood. NOT finding the answers to a lot of which the Christian church teaches made me study even more, and, from what I learned from God's Word I actually left the Christian church as I found a lot of teachings actually go against God's Word, let alone the fact that I couldn't find many things they teach even in God's Word!

Tell me why exactly you think the Mosaic Covenant does not apply to Christians (or for that matter, anybody)? I find nowhere in the Bible that Christ said the law (Torah) didn't apply any longer. (By the way, law is not really the Hebrew meaning of the word Torah, it actually means Gods teachings and instructions in righteousness.) As a matter of fact, all Christ taught was from the Torah as the Scriptures he always referred to were the "Old Testament" Scriptures. The "New Testament" hadn't been written yet!! All the prophecies he fulfilled were from the "Old Testament". He himself kept ALL of the Torah, therefore, he was blameless and without sin, as in the Bible lawlessness is described as Torahless!! For without the Torah we wouldn't even know right from wrong! How do we know what to do or not do if not for the Torah?

So, since you feel the Torah no longer applies, are you saying we can so whatever we please now as long as we say we believe in Jesus? Jesus told us that isn't good enough as even the demons believe! Jesus himself said over and over again that what he was teaching was not HIS WORD but the FATHER'S! Malachi 3:6 - I the Lord do not change..." Where did Jesus say that the Fathers commandments no longer apply? Tell me, if the "Old" doesn't apply then why do Christian churches teach tithing? Why do they teach only some of the commandments and then can't provide proof that Christ did away with the rest? How can just you pick and choose what you are to follow? What I see as changed is the blood sacrifice for our sins as well as the fact that ALL people can now come to the Father through Jesus Christ.

If you read Matthew 10:5,6,7 These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. And preach as you go saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand'. They were distinctly told to go ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel. The Jews! Do you think so many Jews would have followed Jesus if he came telling them the writings of Moses no longer apply? After all they were told by God himself they were to follow His commandments. Why do you think the Jews today don't believe that the Christian Jesus is the true Messiah? Because the one they teach doesn't resemble the true Messiah! What JEWISH Messiah is going to come and tell them that he has done away with every thing the Father commanded of them to do for all generations!!!

If the Feasts are done away with then why does Zechariah prophecy (Zechariah 14:16) that we will keep the Feast of Tabernacles in the millennium? If the Passover is only for the Jews then why did he tell his disciples to remember him every Seder when they drank the Redemption cup and broke and ate the matzoh? (by the way did you ever try to break leavened bread? You can't! You can only BREAK unleavened bread! Just a side thought!)

Jesus came to make a New Covenant with the Jews not the Gentiles! God never had an Old Covenant with the Gentiles, only with the Jews! So how can he bring them a new one if they didn't have one with him in the first place?! The New Covenant is described as the Holy Spirit writing God's Law on our hearts instead of stone tablets. So what Law exactly do you think the Spirit is writing on our hearts? I assume it to be the same Law as in the Mosaic Covenant as we haven't really been given a new one! Even the scripture where Christ tells the two most important commandments is taken out of context and misinterpreted as they are the only ones to obey. However, if you continue to read, he says "On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets" Matthew22:40 I don't take that as we only have to follow those 2 commandments! He never says the rest of the Law and the prophets DON'T apply! He says these two commandments are connected to all of the law and the prophets! If they are connected then how can the law and the prophets been done away with?!!

There are forever commandments in the law and forever isn't here yet! Most of the Torah doesn't apply today as most of it was to the priests of the time. There are some that I think still apply such as the Feasts, as God declares them HIS Feasts NOT the JEWS Feasts! Leviticus 23:2 He also said they were to be kept by all future generations. The 10 commandments still apply obviously or I guess you think it fine to murder or lie, steal etc. Without following all of the 10 commandments you can't possibly love God with all your heart with all your soul and with all your mind, nor can you possibly love your neighbor as yourself. God tells us in His Law how to love him as well as our neighbor.

By the way, seventh day Sabbath wasn't abolished either as far as I can see. After all, Christ said, "Think NOT that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have not come to abolish (do away with) but to fulfill them. For truly I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished." Matthew 5:17,18 As far as I can see heaven and earth haven't passed away yet!

So tell me, according to Scripture, NOT according to what you have been taught by others, exactly WHY you think the Mosaic Covenant was done away with?