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***Vic*** · 04-18-2011, 11:00 AM

Just a few more thoughts.

Did God create all things?
Did He creat rabbits?
Did He create chickens and eggs?

The answer is clearly yes. That some would attempt to use God's creations in ways that did not honor Him but rather false gods which are merely idols, is known throughout Biblical record. Paul wrote to the Romans and said this concerning those who were in the faith and had received the Truth of Christ versus those who, although they were given opportunity to know God, chose to not:

Rom 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
Rom 1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
Rom 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
Rom 1:16 ]b\ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. [/b]
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

We know the Romans and Greeks and many groups throughout humanity chose idols, even though they had known God. And we know the Romans and Greeks specifically had a myriad of of idols and false beliefs.

Yet in that were those who were believers. Who refused, as was noted by Pliny, to worship or follow any but Jesus Christ, even to death.
They would not compromise.

It should be remembered that many were not formally educated or had access to books in those times. What they knew and learned was often orally. Just as Jesus and the apostles were marveled at, the power of God was evident.

Joh 7:14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.
Joh 7:15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Act 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

Paul also wrote that

1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
...1Co 8:10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
1Co 8:11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
1Co 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

Obviously there were many occasions where believers were going to be around those still in pagan practices. The issue was to not be part of the actual religious ceremony and eat what was being sacrificed to the idol. Very simple concept.

Paul also gave example of sitting down in Athens amongst the pagan idols of the Epicurians and their false gods, and explained on Mars Hill who the Unknown God was and who Christ was. Acts 17. He told them they were too superstitious. Because as every Christian knows, there are no other gods, and the idols are nothing and can do nothing.

So, let's assume some pagan said a bunny has super powers...should we be afraid of being around bunnies? If some pagan said the bunny laid eggs, should we believe him? And avoid bunnies or eggs? Are we to be controlled by what some pagan falsely believes or believe God and the freedom we have from such things or believing such things, because of Christ?

Is it any different than what Paul said on Mars hill to the people there, they were way too superstitious. And there are people claiming to be believers who think bunnies have some super powers...and should be avoided.

Bunny's aren't evil. Neither are eggs. God made them and He called His creation good.

Let's assume that there were pagans at that time who painted eggs as part of some religious ceremony. Let's assume that some of those pagans received the Gospel of Jesus Christ and served Him. Let's assume that they were given an opportunity of witnessing to their friends and family who did not believe, by now painting an egg red, to symbolise Christ's shed blood and having emptied the contents prior, demonstrated the resurrection and the empty tomb, when they cracked it open. Let's assume that through that illistration other pagans were able to be taught the Truth about Jesus Christ and the True God, in amongst all their idols. That God used what was His creation in the first place, to again reveal the Truth.

Is it evil to do something like that? I don't think so. Paul took the altar of the Unknown God and presented the truth while sitting amongst all the other false gods they had. Christians don't worship bunnies or eggs or make sacrifices of either [including virgins] on altars in their churches.

Culturally, the world has taken on the flavor of celebration in amongst all the Truth of Jesus Christ and what Easter means. IN fact world wide Easter is well known as the Christian rememberance and celebration of Christ dying on the cross and His resurrection for salvation of all mankind.

I recall as a child, raised in a non Christian home. We were always given an easter basket of stuff and it changed in content as we got older. It was always some candy with something we needed. But in that it was also the time my parents went to church with us --not always, but on occassion. And it meant nothing to me at that time, but they would say Easter was the celebration of when Jesus Christ died and rose again from the grave. They knew, even being worldly, that is what it was really about. God uses many things to bring people to the Truth of Jesus Christ.

People need to stop being superstitious over these things and be an example that there are no other gods, only idols that people build from their own imaginations. There are no bunnies that come visit in the night, who lay eggs and leave them for the children. In case people have forgotten, bunnies don't lay eggs.

Either one lives as knowing Christ or they succumb to the foolishness of the world and ridiculous superstition. And those who ascribe Christians of partaking of the idols and superstition are false accusers. Because one can only assume they themselves really think bunnies have super powers, are gods and lay eggs.

P.S. Neither is getting a new outfit evil. It's merely practical for many around that time, because that's when the weather changes and the sales are...

1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
1Co 10:26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
1Co 10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
1Co 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

1Co 10:29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
1Co 10:30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
1Co 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
Col 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

***Vic*** · 04-18-2011, 06:05 PM

People like to question the conduct of Christians. And the accusation of pagan is just one of many that are hurled. I was looking at some of the early church writings and found Mathetes, and although some things are a bit difficult to read concerning his analysis of various issues, here's what he had to say about the conduct of Christians. He wrote this about 150 a.d. and it's believed he was directly associated with the apostles.

Quote:The Epistle of Mathetes to Diognetus
...Text edited by Rev. Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson and first published by T&T Clark in Edinburgh in 1867. Additional introductionary material and notes provided for the American edition by A. Cleveland Coxe, 1886.

...Chapter V. The manners of the Christians.

For the Christians are distinguished from other men neither by country, nor language, nor the customs which they observe. For they neither inhabit cities of their own, nor employ a peculiar form of speech, nor lead a life which is marked out by any singularity. The course of conduct which they follow has not been devised by any speculation or deliberation of inquisitive men; nor do they, like some, proclaim themselves the advocates of any merely human doctrines. But, inhabiting Greek as well as barbarian cities, according as the lot of each of them has determined, and following the customs of the natives in respect to clothing, food, and the rest of their ordinary conduct, they display to us their wonderful and confessedly striking [281] method of life. They dwell in their own countries, but simply as sojourners. As citizens, they share in all things with others, and yet endure all things as if foreigners. Every foreign land is to them as their native country, and every land of their birth as a land of strangers. They marry, as do all [others]; they beget children; but they do not destroy their offspring. [282] They have a common table, but not a common bed. [283] They are in the flesh, but they do not live after the flesh. [284] They pass their days on earth, but they are citizens of heaven. [285] They obey the prescribed laws, and at the same time surpass the laws by their lives. They love all men, and are persecuted by all. They are unknown and condemned; they are put to death, and restored to life. [286] They are poor, yet make many rich; [287] they are in lack of all things, and yet abound in all; they are dishonoured, and yet in their very dishonour are glorified. They are evil spoken of, and yet are justified; they are reviled, and bless; [288] they are insulted, and repay the insult with honour; they do good, yet are punished as evil-doers. When punished, they rejoice as if quickened into life; they are assailed by the Jews as foreigners, and are persecuted by the Greeks; yet those who hate them are unable to assign any reason for their hatred.

Footnotes
[281] Literally, "paradoxical." [282] Literally, "cast away fœtuses." [283] Otto omits "bed," which is an emendation, and gives the second "common" the sense of unclean. [284] Comp. 2 Cor. x. 3. [285] Comp. Phil. iii. 20. [286] Comp. 2 Cor. vi. 9. [287] Comp. 2 Cor. vi. 10. [288] Comp. 2 Cor. iv. 12.

http://mb-soft.com/believe/txv/mathetes.htm

sari83 · (This post was last modified: 04-19-2011 04:39 PM by Vic.)

Vic:
The issue became not fighting over the timing of the event, but rather, to allow the freedom to choose, and keep it according to the custom handed down.

Sari83:
Why not give the same freedom to those who choose to continue in the Passover/Lord's Supper as the quartodecimans had?

Vic:
So, let's assume some pagan said a bunny has super powers...should we be afraid of being around bunnies? If some pagan said the bunny laid eggs, should we believe him? And avoid bunnies or eggs? Are we to be controlled by what some pagan falsely believes or believe God and the freedom we have from such things or believing such things, because of Christ?

Sari83:
Once a person realizes specific activities were invented and based in superstition, do these things not then become meaningless?

Vic:

***Vic*** · 04-19-2011, 10:41 AM

(04-19-2011 09:18 AM)sari83 Wrote: Vic:
The issue became not fighting over the timing of the event, but rather, to allow the freedom to choose, and keep it according to the custom handed down.

Sari83:
Why not give the same freedom to those who choose to continue in the Passover/Lord's Supper as the quartodecimans had?

Vic:
So, let's assume some pagan said a bunny has super powers...should we be afraid of being around bunnies? If some pagan said the bunny laid eggs, should we believe him? And avoid bunnies or eggs? Are we to be controlled by what some pagan falsely believes or believe God and the freedom we have from such things or believing such things, because of Christ?

Sari83:
Once a person realizes specific activities were invented and based in superstition, do these things not then become meaningless?

Vic:

Sarah, the difference between keeping the OT Passover and the NT as fulfilled in Christ, is night and day. No one can keep the OT passover according to what God commanded because there is no Temple.

All the feasts required a sin offering. Jesus was the final sin offering, once for all. To attempt to make sin offerings is to fully negate His final sacrifice. If they do not attempt to make sin offerings then they are not keeping the feasts and practices the way God commanded. Which means violating the Law given by God.

This is what was required for Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which required the Temple and the priest :

Lev 23:8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
:9 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:
11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD.
13 And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.
14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto.

For Pentecost, which required offerings to be given at the Temple in Jerusalem by the High Priest. And if you recall the believers were not at the Temple for Pentecost when they received the promised Holy Spirit for the very first time:

Lev 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD.
18 And ye shall offer with the bread seven lambs without blemish of the first year, and one young bullock, and two rams: they shall be for a burnt offering unto the LORD, with their meat offering, and their drink offerings, even an offering made by fire, of sweet savour unto the LORD.
19 Then ye shall sacrifice one kid of the goats for a sin offering, and two lambs of the first year for a sacrifice of peace offerings.
20 And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits for a wave offering before the LORD, with the two lambs: they shall be holy to the LORD for the priest.
21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.
22 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.

Further, All the feasts required a sacrifice for sin. - that was the *prerequisite* requirement for observance for ALL of the Mosaic Law. Without the shed blood of animals on the altar, no one can observe/keep any of the feasts. This is why the book of Hebrews is so "dangerous" to those in the Hebrew Roots movement and why it is either ignored or reapplied by the HR community and others or deleted out of the NT, which some have done.

The feasts were a spiritual "picture", so to speak, of who Jesus was, what He would do, and how He would bring in the New Covenant through the sacrifice of Himself. So we must not only look at how He fulfilled the feasts physically, but spiritually as well.

Jesus came to fulfill, to accomplish what the feasts and keeping the Law could not do. This is why He is the perfect sacrificial Lamb - for all sin, once and for all sacrifices. No one can do more or "practice" or "rehearse" what has already been completed in perfect righteousness Jesus said, "It is finished". We either believe that or we don't.

Sarah you are missing the point. Eggs and bunnies and such are not evil. IF someone chose to use those things in an evil manner does not change that they are not evil. What is done with them can be for or against God. The egyptians, muslims and other groups sacrificed lambs for their religious practices to gods. But God chose to show an honoring of Him by use of a lamb by in the first passover and from then on. Are God's practices and example evil ways Sarah? If you look at history, all manner of animals were being sacrificed to pagan gods. Does that mean that when Israel was given the commandments by God, and heathen were sacrificing animals all around them, they should have told God it was a pagan practice and they wouldn't do it?

YOu are trying to base what Christians do on foolish superstition. Instead of the freedom we have in Christ in knowing there are no other gods Sarah. And by proclaiming TRUTH and sharing Christ in a harmless activity that proclaims Christ.....if that was even the reasoning for painting eggs. That was a supposition-----I suggested it could have been that way as a scenario to consider the issuee, but I have not researched it fully. But you so willingly believe that it must have been based on some pagan background, when that may not have been the case in that tradition.

Some may have just been inspired to do it and it became part of a tradition because it helped them remember and convey the whole event of Christ, whether they did or did not have a written epistle or gospel in those times. THey may simply have desired to proclaim Christ in a way all could understand. And provide a tradition that could be handed down with that same meaning.

You seem to forget, books and such were not like we have today. No telephones to convey what someone said. No easy way to get from a to b to hear a speaker. These people, many, memorised the epistles as they received them. Until such time as God provided all the copies and later compilation of the record of CHrist which we are so blessed to be able to have a Bible.

You also seem to forget, as Pliny and Mathetes and others tell, the Christians did not do pagan things. THey did not follow other gods and would not have done something that would have been part of a known pagan practice related to those gods.

Get over this Sarah. You are condemning Christians for something that is not so. EGGS are God's creation. Bunnies are God's creation. If I as a Christian choose to paint an egg, which I have not done incidentally, it is not going to destroy or make my witness. Our witness is just as Mathetes conveyed. And he said the Christians, regardless of what country they lived in, they dressed the same as others, they ate the very same things as others [full confirmation of Peter's vision being about food and people], followed the day to day customs of others, kept the laws of the land, and exuded Christ and godliness in their character and attitudes.

That's what it is about Sarah. Showing the things that really matter to God. Living Christ. It's about the inward heart, which belongs to Christ and has been made free from sin, being proclaimed outwardly. Legalism doesn't cut it. Living for Jesus Christ, and exuding the fruit of the Spirit does.

The things that really matter, you are missing on Sarah. There's many things that I don't do, simply because I have no interest in a particular cultural activity. It has no draw for me. I don't do the bunnies or eggs. But if I chose to, in order to find a way to talk to someone who did not know Jesus Christ, I would use them as a tool. For those who do not know Jesus Christ, we are free to use the things of the world's culture and customs to proclaim Christ. If someone was sacrificing bunnies and eggs to some 'god', and eating them for that purpose, no, I wouldn't partake. Because the Scriptures say not to. But I might find a way to present Christ to those who would do such things, just as Paul gave the examples repeatedly.

The goal is to reach others for Christ, not hide from the world because it does not honor God. The whole world is aware that Christ is being proclaimed at Easter, His death and glorious resurrection. Instead of condemning it, maybe start using it as an opportunity to share the most prescious gift anyone can receive, the Truth of Jesus Christ and salvation by God's grace. And if you can somehow use a bunnie and eggs as a witness, go for it. But if you can't, don't condemn others who may have insight and inspiration to find a way to use those customs to share Christ.

We are in the world Sarah, as sojourners and pilgrims. IN the world but not OF the world.

sari83 · (This post was last modified: 04-19-2011 11:09 AM by sari83.)

Vic:
However, Sarah you are not being Scripturally accurate in what you are saying. Jesus very often said, a new commandment.... and while the Holy Spirit was given and would bring to mind all that Jesus had said and taught them while in person, it also says, that He would gave commandments through the Holy Spirit to them, including knowledge of things to come.

Acts 1:1-9 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2. Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: 3. To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Sari83:
I thought I'd take a closer look at these verses in Acts. The truth is, the Greek word 'entellomai # 1781 in which commandments is translated from in verse 2, actually means to command, charge, or enjoin. It's never used in a plural sense. So, these verses do not mean Christ gave new commandments through the holy ghost. If that were the case, the text would have contained the Greek word 'entole #1785 which the translators used in reference to commandments (about 90 times), and it means injunction, i.e. an authoritative prescription.

Rose of Shushan · (This post was last modified: 04-19-2011 02:19 PM by Rose of Shushan.)

Quote:Why not give the same freedom to those who choose to continue in the Passover/Lord's Supper as the quartodecimans had?

How does one continue in the Passover/Lord's Supper like the quartodecimans?What did that entail?

***Vic*** · 04-19-2011, 04:42 PM

Sarah, one question. Can you keep the passover according to the commandments given directly to Israel by God through Moses, completely, precisely and fully according to the Scriptures, and according to the covenant that God made with Israel?

Rose of Shushan · 04-19-2011, 10:06 PM

Quote:Why not give the same freedom to those who choose to continue in the Passover/Lord's Supper as the quartodecimans had?

Aside from my other question on this I'd also like to comment that it is you who seem to be curtailing christians' freedom to worship and commemorate Christ's death and Resurrection when and how they want.
I so agree with all the comments made by Vic to you regarding bunnies,eggs,the timing etc
If the quarto decimans wanted to observe the day on the fourteenth of Nisan and others today want to do the same so what?
I have done so in the past and totally respect those who still do.I kind of understand the QD's since I also recognise that if we want the exact time on the calendar that He died then it's going to be on the fourteenth.However if we want to be more exact we would have to consider if there was a second adar on the year that he died or not but thats a rabbit trail.
The thing for me is that when it occurs early on in the week like this year its like a long time from the day He was crucified to Resurrection Sunday.So I do understand the logic of the Church commemorating each day of what Christ went through on the corresponding days of the week.For example many churchs will have some sort of a footwashing service on Thursday evening and read the appropriate Scriptures etc..then the same for Friday through to Sunday.
Some christian customs which seem to date also back to the very early church include fasting and keeping watch the night in prayer and worship .These all tend to especially figure around Holy Week and follows the days of the week which they actually occurred.Makes it so much easier and consistent from year to year considering we don't follow a lunar calendar.

sari83 · (This post was last modified: 04-20-2011 10:48 AM by sari83.)

Vic:
Did God create all things?
Did He creat rabbits?
Did He create chickens and eggs?

The answer is clearly yes. That some would attempt to use God's creations in ways that did not honor Him but rather false gods which are merely idols, is known throughout Biblical record.

Sari83:
Very true. Reminds me of something God says in Isaiah, that I reflect on often.

Isa 66:1-2
Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
(KJV)

Vic:
Let's assume that there were pagans at that time who painted eggs as part of some religious ceremony. Let's assume that some of those pagans received the Gospel of Jesus Christ and served Him. Let's assume that they were given an opportunity of witnessing to their friends and family who did not believe, by now painting an egg red, to symbolise Christ's shed blood and having emptied the contents prior, demonstrated the resurrection and the empty tomb, when they cracked it open. Let's assume that through that illistration other pagans were able to be taught the Truth about Jesus Christ and the True God, in amongst all their idols. That God used what was His creation in the first place, to again reveal the Truth.

Sari83:
The pagans did many things that we now consider superstitious because they had not the truth of God. Paul says in Romans, who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped the creation, rather than the Creator.

Vic:
You are trying to base what Christians do on foolish superstition. Instead of the freedom we have in Christ in knowing there are no other gods Sarah. And by proclaiming TRUTH and sharing Christ in a harmless activity that proclaims Christ.....if that was even the reasoning for painting eggs. That was a supposition-----I suggested it could have been that way as a scenario to consider the issuee, but I have not researched it fully. But you so willingly believe that it must have been based on some pagan background, when that may not have been the case in that tradition. Some may have just been inspired to do it and it became part of a tradition because it helped them remember and convey the whole event of Christ, whether they did or did not have a written epistle or gospel in those times. THey may simply have desired to proclaim Christ in a way all could understand. And provide a tradition that could be handed down with that same meaning.

Sari83:
I was thinking about it yesterday, and I realized it's not the word Easter that bothers me. If people want to discredit Bede's account, that's not the major issue for me. A word means what a person has been taught and understands it to mean. The bigger issue is the fact that a celebration of Christ's Resurrection was intermingled with superstitious practices, and we know this based on historical evidence. I know that we have freedom in Christ, which to me means we are free to worship God in spirit and truth. The reason I even begin commenting here is because it was difficult to concur with the unwillingness to admit the origins of these pagan practices. We know for a fact where they came from painting eggs came from, and that is truth. Christ says the truth makes us free. Then each believer can make their own informed decision.

" Why Color Eggs?
by Sandi Duncan | Monday, March 17th, 2008 | From: Farmers' Almanac Blog, Featured

Originally, the Persians and then the ancient Egyptians, exchanged colored eggs to celebrate the return of spring. They also used those decorated eggs as tokens of goodwill. The eggs were often colored a bright red to signify blood and the life force.

Later, the Greeks adopted the custom and used colored eggs during their spring festivals as a sign of fertility and of the regenerative power of nature. During Cleopatra’s rein, around 50 B.C., Egyptians and Romans colored eggs as part of their spring festivals.

The custom started disappearing in Europe when the Pennsylvania Dutch brought it to the New World in the 1700s. But the tradition didn’t catch on right away. By 1880, the Pennsylvania Dutch and the Ukranians were the only ethnic groups in this country who, in any real number, still observed this quaint festivity.

Because egg dying was a time-consuming practice back then, many people didn’t have the time or resources to participate in the tradition. Unlike today, most Easter eggs were colored by boiling them with onions skins for a yellow color, hickory bark for shades of brown, madder root for red and other materials such as coffee, walnut hulls, green wheat and beets for varying colors. Dyes such as indigo, logwood, and gamboges were also used, but you had to go out and buy these dyes.

William M. Townley, a druggist at a New Jersey store, sold the dyes. One year, Townley came up with the idea of packaging his dyes, after he spilled some powdered indigo on a suit and ruined it. After that incident, he had his shop boy take the dyes to the backyard of the shop and measure and prepackage the various dyes used for Easter eggs.

This made coloring eggs easier and more convenient, and also helped renew this custom which is still observed today."

http://www.farmersalmanac.com/blog/2008/...olor-eggs/

Vic:
Sarah, one question. Can you keep the passover according to the commandments given directly to Israel by God through Moses, completely, precisely and fully according to the Scriptures, and according to the covenant that God made with Israel?

Sari83:
No. I was suggesting a continuing of an early Christian tradition of following Christ's example, and honoring Him as He specified.

***Vic*** · (This post was last modified: 04-21-2011 09:46 AM by Vic.)

Sarah, you again miss the point. I gave you that Scripture in Romans previously, because it was relevant to understand that those who rejected God, chose to make up gods and worshipped the creatures etc. Now it means something to you? THey had every opportunity to know God, but they chose to follow the vanity of their minds and believe a lie.

I did not say that Christians painted eggs based on a pagan worship practice. I gave a scenario to discuss the what if and so what about it. Anything Christians did and do was to proclaim Jesus Christ, and unless someone was deliberately out to proclaim or worship a false god, and that would mean they weren't of Christ.

Again, I say to you, eggs, painting eggs, resurrection eggs or whatever, that proclaim Christ or the Gospel are NOT A PAGAN PRACTICE. Nowhere in what a Christians is doing in those things is to worship, give a sacrifice to or acknowledge the worship or ritual of a false god. Neither was there a false god named eostre, easter or was there anything connected to any other false god in relation to what Christians were doing in rememberance of Christ. Bede manufactured the information and gullible people who are willing to label and falsely accuse Christians, readily played the telephone game. Without one shred of historical record or proof. That aside from the understanding that not all who claim to be of CHrist are, just as not all under the label of Christian is or has been of God.

If I go into a store and buy a chocolate egg, I am not participating in pagan ritual nor am I worshipping a false god. 'GO into the shambles and buy food...

1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake: 1Co 10:26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
1Co 10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.

I did not say Christians based their beliefs on foolish superstition. Pagan religious practices are all based on foolish superstition. I was saying that those who accuse Christians of practicing pagan practices, when for example they paint an egg to proclaim Jesus Christ, are themselves--meaning the accusers--- following a foolish superstition that is not based on Truth. Christ and honoring or proclaiming Him is not a foolish superstition nor based on superstition.

That's the difference between a believer and non. What a pagan does, is what a pagan does and for whom. What a true Christian does, is for Christ, and according to what He calls us to, including knowing we are free from the things that corrupt the world. Christians DO NOT worship bunnies or eggs, which are both made by God. That those things are in the world as a cultural issue for most, for some it's amusing, for some it's fun, for some it's cute....for most Christians it's a non issue, because for Christians, they celebrate Jesus Christ crucified and risen, and are thankful for the seasons, spring, summer, fall and winter, and we can rejoice and make special moments or celebrations about those IF WE WANT TO, always keeping in mind WHO created the heavens and the earth and all that is in it.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

I know of no Christians who bow down in worship of a bunnie or an egg. DO you know any Christians worshipping a bunny or egg or who are involved in using them to worship or give sacrifice to a false god? How about To sacrifice a bunny to God? IN all my years I have never seen a bunny in a church, being worshipped, sacrificed or otherwise.

Easter is about the Truth of Jesus Christ. And Christians, from Easter Friday or Good Friday through to Sunday --which some call easter sunday and or resurrection Sunday----they know that Jesus fulfilled the passover, as He did all the other feasts, and He was the final sacrifice, He is the Passover Lamb, He died and rose again and Christians take communion, some on Friday, some on Saturday , some on Sunday--some all three....because they have the understanding of the spiritual fulfillment of the original passover, just as the apostles understood and taught. That after Christ died and rose from the dead, everything changed.

It's funny that the whole world knows Easter is about Jesus Christ and the Gospel, including atheists.

And it's just sad and too bad so many who claim to be believers prefer to be seduced into thinking that Easter is about paganism, instead of knowing it's about Christ crucified and Risen from the grave and He's Alive!

In the world but not of the world. That's who we are to be.
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One more thought. Sarah you said you use your logic and your analytical mind to determine what's right--which actually means it's not about what the Holy Spirit teaches or provides. However, analyse this.

You have presented information about what you think is the full story of when eggs began to be decorated and hence why all eggs and paint must be evil. However, eggs were eaten from the beginning of time. And since eggs are in your own presentation as part of pagan belief, you had better purge your home of every egg, and every product that has eggs as part of it's makeup, because egyptians for example also made recipes using eggs-including custard. Because otherwise you will be guilty of pagan practices and thought because even to look at an egg must mean you believe the same as the egyptians and others. That also goes for those chickens, lambs, goats, cows, bunnies...any animal, fruit, grass, vegetable, because they are all used by pagans in pagan religious beliefs at some point. And as far as paint, since it was used for pagan eggs, you must eliminate all paint from your home, furniture, walls....oh and if you have have furniture and it set in any way but haphazard, you are likely practicing feng shui, and if you sit or stand in a certain way at a certain time, you are practicing a pagan practice that you need to stop. And if you wear clothes with patterns such as paisley and bright colors, elminate them because you are practicing pagan ways--think India religious beliefs for example. And if you look at a sunrise or sunset and consider it, you are guilty of a pagan religious practice. If you look at the sky or walk in a grove of trees--don't do it, because you are guilty of a pagan practice. If you pray, standing, kneeling, looking up, looking down, bowing, you are guilty of practicing pagan religious practices. Since you are now in the world and everything you do is of the world in some way, you obviously are not of Christ and are hypocritical if you are involved in any of the above, because in Christ, we are free from the world and live to Him

Colossians 3:2-10 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. 5. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 6. For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: 7. In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. 8. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. 9. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10. And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. [