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Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
08-05-2009, 05:48 PM
Post: #101
RE: Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
(08-05-2009 11:19 AM)John-Bible-reader Wrote:  Regardless of the day on which you choose to worship, that is a good question. Holding a church service on Sunday is also a lot of work so the question applies to Christians as well as to Messianic Jews and to non-Messianic Jews.

Non-Messianic Jews have a lot of man-made additions to sabbath that create technicalities of what they can do on sabbath and what must be put off until Sunday. So, they frequently have servidces on Sabbath but a "Sunday School" on Sunday as well.

Messianic Jews tend to stick with the Bible on the matter. In the Hebrew when God gives the five Commandments of the Sabbath, He forbid "Malacha" but not "Avodah." These are both Hebrew words that can be translated as "worK" if one id sloppy in translation. "Malacha" would be better translated ad "laborious work," and "avodah" would be better translated as "service to God or to mankind." So, while it is forbidden to work, things done to serve God in having a service are not forbidden. By the same token, as Messiah taught, redering medical assistance on Sabbath is also permitted.

For those curious as to the four commandments of Sabbath:
1: Kindle no fire (fuel may be added to a preexisting fire and burning, materials may be separated from eachother, but striking a match or liting a lighter is not permitted).
2: Do the Musaf (additional) Offering. (Messianic Jews believe that Messiah has come, so their offerings are prayers and praise)
3: Maintain the holiness of Sabbath.
4: Do no laborious work on Sabbath.
5: Remember the Sabbath (aside from maintaining the correct day, this includes planing ahead so that one is not placed in the position of seeming to need to violate the Sabbath.

Christians topically agree with the Messianic Jews on the matter of work, but usually without the research into Hebrew or harmonizing the Torah with the Gospels. Usually, they simply appeal to "common sense." However, since actual sense seems so uncommon among people, maybe that is not the best of ideas.

Where to begin .............. Thinking2

Avodah and Malacha? and God says?


Exo 16:29 See, for the LORD has given you the sabbath, therefore he gives you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide you every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

That seems to put a huge "kabash" [Hebrew word] on how Messianics keep the Sabbath "according to the Bible".

And then there is this:


Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:


H4399
מלאכה
melâ'kâh
BDB Definition:
1) occupation, work, business
1a) occupation, business
1b) property
1c) work (something done or made)
1d) workmanship
1e) service, use
1f) public business
1f1) political
1f2) religious

Perhaps you could explain to me how this would be interpreted by Israel at the time that God gave this commandment seeing that they had just fled Egypt and had no jobs, no political affiliation, no religious system, did not own a business, etc. BUT, 1c - 1e definitely leaves room for NOT cooking, cleaning, and entertaining. Oh, and they did not have Torah studies either or an oneg Busted

Quote: By the same token, as Messiah taught, redering medical assistance on Sabbath is also permitted.

I am sure that is at the top of everyone's list at schul Th_ththink
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08-05-2009, 06:46 PM
Post: #102
RE: Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
(08-05-2009 05:48 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  Where to begin .............. Thinking2

Avodah and Malacha? and God says?


Exo 16:29 See, for the LORD has given you the sabbath, therefore he gives you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide you every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

That seems to put a huge "kabash" [Hebrew word] on how Messianics keep the Sabbath "according to the Bible".

And then there is this:


Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:


H4399
מלאכה
melâ'kâh
BDB Definition:
1) occupation, work, business
1a) occupation, business
1b) property
1c) work (something done or made)
1d) workmanship
1e) service, use
1f) public business
1f1) political
1f2) religious

Perhaps you could explain to me how this would be interpreted by Israel at the time that God gave this commandment seeing that they had just fled Egypt and had no jobs, no political affiliation, no religious system, did not own a business, etc. BUT, 1c - 1e definitely leaves room for NOT cooking, cleaning, and entertaining. Oh, and they did not have Torah studies either or an oneg Busted

Quote: By the same token, as Messiah taught, redering medical assistance on Sabbath is also permitted.

I am sure that is at the top of everyone's list at schul Th_ththink

LMAO Th_goodpoint

Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Gal 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Gal 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

Jer 12:5 If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?
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08-05-2009, 09:15 PM
Post: #103
RE: Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
(08-05-2009 06:46 PM)heb13-13 Wrote:  Gal 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

I hope you see the "humor" of the numbering of this text. Please note - 6:13. And how many laws do Messianics say there are? [Straight from Judaism] Smiley-happy053
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08-06-2009, 12:20 AM
Post: #104
RE: Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
(08-05-2009 09:15 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  
(08-05-2009 06:46 PM)heb13-13 Wrote:  Gal 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

I hope you see the "humor" of the numbering of this text. Please note - 6:13. And how many laws do Messianics say there are? [Straight from Judaism] Smiley-happy053

God must be telling us something.

I did not notice that.

Jer 12:5 If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?
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