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Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
06-15-2009, 10:21 PM (This post was last modified: 06-19-2009 08:47 PM by Vic.)
Post: #61
RE: Almost afraid to post...
Sorry folks...to many rabbit trails for me to address everyone's topics. Let's check this class in session....

Berean University
Sabbath 101

Article deleted by Vic

Due to the fact that this writing was a major article without required documentation, and it is fully refuted, with quotes, in several posts- this article is being removed. Newbies who come and post such things are spamming. It's that simple. And that violates forum rules.
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06-15-2009, 10:44 PM
Post: #62
RE: Almost afraid to post...
Quote:Sorry folks...to many rabbit trails for me to address everyone's topics. Let's check this class in session....

Excuse me? Those "rabbit trails" are the ones that you yourself brought up and that we in turn are addressing.I think the least that you can do is address them and not post an article on here which is lengthy and badly formatted,thus making it very hard to read.
I find it extremely rude that you start a thread with a pòst that covers a wide variety of things and when we take the time to respond you brush them off so lightly.And to add insult to injury you then post a thread or an article,it's hard to decipher what it is, for us to have to address.You really do take the biscuit LOL but come on Sign_respect1 and discuss the stuff thats already been put to you . I am amazed that instead of answering us you give us all that stuff to read off a website Swoon
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06-15-2009, 11:55 PM
Post: #63
RE: Almost afraid to post...
mcafee flags foreversabbath.com as a malware site (malicious spyware). Upon going to foreversabbath.com, I find that the article that Truth Seeker says is at foreversabbath.com... is not there at all.

To say it is there is deceitful.

I did, however, find the questions he addressed at an entirely different site.... bethesdabiblechurch.myfunforum.org

This is the only place I could find where these questions were asked on the internet. It is obvious that the questions were plagiarized from the bethesdabiblechurch webpage.
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06-16-2009, 03:56 PM (This post was last modified: 06-16-2009 04:02 PM by Strefanash.)
Post: #64
RE: Almost afraid to post...
3)He says they are a "Shadow of what is to come".
Paul is saying let no man judge you, except members of the one body because these festivals and new moons and annual (and weekly) Sabbaths which you had not been keeping, but are at long last now keeping, are shadows of good things to come!

Stref:

You have totally inverted the sense of the thing. The whole thrust of Pauline thought is that the shadow is less important than the thing it prefigures. Are we to go to the shadow when the reality is now here?

Paul made it clear in Galatians that to seek the shadow (the Law) as a christian is to deny christ. Paul also made it clear that the ONLY result of the Law is condemnation and death, indeed the Law will stir up sin and make it much, much worse

You have put yourself under the Law. YOU ARE THEREFORE REQUIRED TO KEEP IT ALL IN TOTAL PERFECTION.

And dont expect God to help you, he will never aid an endeavour that stems from self righteous attempt at self justification.

Grace is not a kind of energy that empowers my will when i decide to attempt to keep the Law. Such is an irrational reification (look it up) of grace.

Grace is something else
Truthseeker:

There is too much to adress in the rest of your post for now.

Stref:

the impression given by this cavalier admission is not good. For the other points I raise in that post are that your efforts at sabbath keeping do not consitute sabbath keeping, but are in fact merely religiosity transfered to a Saturday instead of a Sunday.

That is to say doing what church goers do on a sunday rather than a saturday is NOT sabbath keeping.

You have brushed aside a key point. THis does not bode well

Those that boast most about their "sabbath keeping" are in fact not keeping it. they have been deceived by their own outward apperances of obedience. THis is the nature of legalism. Always.

that is why it is so dangerous
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06-16-2009, 10:42 PM
Post: #65
RE: Almost afraid to post...
I think I'm starting to get a grasp on how this HR fourm works. If one disregards any point that another feels should have been addressed....he/she is shunned. Perhaps this is correct. I'm more into cutting and pasting my writings and others, but since it appears they will be deleted, though in my mind mind on topic and relevant, I will type more. :(

This is a tough group and they demand answers. Rightly so. Smiley-face-thumb

Note: This could become the longest running thread this board has ever seen, so be it. Please realize it may take me weeks to get to everyones responses, especially if we don't stay on topic. Popcorn


Liberated by Faith Wrote:While it is true that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath, one must realize who that Sabbath was given to... It was given to those living within Israel's boundaries. It was not given to the rest of mankind. Check your Old Testament. The Sabbath was observed by the Israelites, not anyone else.


Actually Sabbath was given to Adam. I can't imagine the Father not telling Adam about His Sabbath after He created him. Notice it's even called the “heritage of Jacob”. (Can't find the verse at the moment, but will if you insist upon it) Abraham kept it before “Israel” even existed. Why not also check the “NT”. We are to walk as Messiah walked, right? It was His custom to be in the assembly every Sabbath.

You have brought up a bit of a side here. It being who Israel was then (12 tribes) and who the apostate house of Israel is now. (10 Northern, now dispersed tribes) You know, the same House of Israel YHWH divorced in Jer 10? I could go into a very lengthly discussion on this topic, but, it's a bit off topic wouldn't you say?


Liberated by Faith Wrote:In the New Testament, we find Believers after the cross worshipping God on the FIRST day of the week:

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Actually it was the first sundown of the new week. What we call “Saturday evening. Paul preached on through the night. It was why poor Euticus fell out the window. Notice the “many lamps”? This wasn't a sun-day morning “come to Jesus” meeting. It's called a Havdalah meeting.

Liberated by Faith Wrote:Peter, in the Jerusalem Council, pointed out the fact that the Gentile Believers were not to be put under the yoke of the Mosaic Law that not even the Israelite forefathers were able to bear. (Read Acts 15:1-10)

Acts 15 concerns works to earn salvation. We all know that no one can earn their salvation, right? Notice how a few verses later it's stated thus so as not to be more then they could bear to hear initially and would be in the assembly (Greek – synagogue) every Sabbath hearing Moses being read. Ask yourself this...Am I in the (correct) assembly hearing Moses read every Sabbath? If no, Acts 15 doesn't even apply to you. Sorry if that's to strong. I myself prefer to have the truth told me, not someone beating around the bush forever.

[/quote]Since I have presented the Scripture that states we are not to be put under the yoke of the Mosaic Law, our teachings and beliefs are not erroneous at all, but are in perfect alignment with the written Word of God.
[/quote]

I've lost this part of your post. Could you mention it again?
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06-16-2009, 10:49 PM
Post: #66
RE: Almost afraid to post...
Truth Seeker,

Your posts have NOT been deleted but are under moderation. They will be addressed likely tomorrow by myself. Until then I would ask that you wait to post until after I have posted in this thread and your latest thread, which was put under moderation. 6799 Please do as asked so no more need be put into moderation. Yes

7143

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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06-17-2009, 06:10 PM (This post was last modified: 06-17-2009 08:12 PM by Vic.)
Post: #67
RE: Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
Continuation of the Almost afraid to post.... thread merged into the "dreaded Sabbath" topic thread.

Truth Seeker,

The file for the article posted by Truth Seeker, Post # 19 now post # > Berean University Sabbath 101 > is actually from http://www.foreversabbath.com/Berean_U.htm

It is not available on the regular internet. However it can be read in the Internet Archives, which also shows the rest of the articles for that site up until October of 2007. That article was in fact posted or archived July 13, 2007. http://web.archive.org/web/2007071302012...rean_U.htm

The main page can also be seen here, http://web.archive.org/web/2007042919425...m/Main.htm with a very hebraic and messianic minded list of articles. But Mike, you said to Sheep,
"Like you, I was involved with the "messy antics" Judaism but now I'm not. I found out their orgins and who I was supporting in a round about manner..."

The site is very messianic and it was a very pro messianic article that you posted. Therefore your statement is in contradiction to the facts.

The ForeverSabbath website is Part of the >Coalition of Torah Observant Messianic Congregations > http://www.ctomc.ca/
>http://users.eastlink.ca/~nertamid/ctomc_100best.htm >ForeverSabath.com (Richton, MS) - http://www.foreversabbath.com

It shows with a special scroll trophy as being among the top 100---and yet--it is impossible to access the site from that, or any sources on the internet which list the link.

Now, that site is registered by a Ron Spencer who is the technical contact, and it supposedly registered until 2015. So while it is not available to the general public as is...apparently Mike, you have had access for awhile, since 2007, or kept it from a prior read, or .... since you neither gave link credit or author credit--which--since you affirmed to me by email that you read the Forum Rules---you would have had to post that information in order to not violate Copyright LAW, nor violate the Forum Rules--which can be translated loosely to be the Forum LAW, so to speak. And I notice on the Foreversabbath.com--an article dedicated to -- keeping the law and antinomians...etc. So...

The Foreversabbath website is not available and went under construction in October 2007--and apparently has not been accessed since. So..the question would be, how would you access a little known article posted a few months before the site apparently became inaccessible?

It is required to post proper links for all source documents so copyright is not infringed. For newbies that means no hotlinks to anything, but a statement of source and name of the article with the file extension. Since you chose to use a copyrighted article. Now you specifically stated by email to me, that you have read the forum rules, both when you registered and when I mentioned them to you in the first email, and clearly stated to me you haven't violated them.. Yet, here you are, violating copyright LAW. Smack

I noticed that Foreversabbath author has a habit of using phrasing and concepts and arguments....much like you. Including the issue of SDA's, which you mention in very much the same way as is seen on that site... in Post 6 > now Post #
"The SDA's are another issue. They have some problems too..."

Are you the author of that Sabbath 101 article and or that foreversabbath website? Please don't omit answering my questions. As I stated in my email response to you. This is a discussion forum where people can join in and discuss issues....it's a choice to join and a choice to stay..and our choice if someone is allowed to stay. 6788

I noticed too, in a Sabbath article on that site...this statement....
"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life." --Yahshua (The Restoration of YHVH)"

http://web.archive.org/web/2007071302031...abbath.htm

Do tell, aside from the obvious misstatement and twisting of Scripture of that most important verse, since you appear intimate and in agreement with the writings on that site---who is this Yahshua spoken of? Because, in your post held in moderation, we see you use, Yahushua --- Yuk

For Ex.
"Roma 7:25 (NKJV) I thank Yahweh--through Yahushua the Messiah our Master! So then, with the mind I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, but with the flesh the Law of sin.

Again Mike---that is NOT NKJV--but a perversion of it-- which again violates copyright LAW---which claimed law keepers /torah keepers know violates the law of the land--hence --God's laws. Lightning

Tit 3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

Romans 13:1-3 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:


I know that's not from the Mosaic Law...perhaps you missed reading it. Th_emotionsshrug

Yahshua and Yahushua are made up names and are not found anywhere in the Hebrew Scriptures. Nor Greek manuscripts. But those in Hebrew Roots and Sacred namers make up all manner of 'true names'. see: http://www.seekgod.ca/htwhatsinaname.htm ; http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=3

Now Foreversabbath.com links to yashanet--a very Jewish based organization. > and specifically to
http://web.archive.org/web/2007062505431...derlaw.htm Not Subject to the Law of God?--- and in it's recommended reading resources---we see talmud, and kabbalah, and more kabbalah...http://www.yashanet.com/reading.htm Not surprising when we see the article you posted--and sent separately to me by email.

Berean University - Sabbath 101. You prefaced it incidentally with
"Sorry folks...to many rabbit trails for me to address everyone's topics. Let's check this class in session...." That "class in session" was, as stated, from July 2007. Based on something from 2002. So again....actual source and author, Mike??? And this class on this forum---never existed. You are not a teacher to anyone here. Let us be very clear on that. You have not proven you even know Jesus Christ. You have so far offered nothing but Hebraic roots and messianic based beliefs--which you claim you don't hold. But, then last night--in a post I held back until I post on these others, you stated,

Quote:"I think I'm starting to get a grasp on how this HR fourm works. If one disregards any point that another feels should have been addressed....he/she is shunned. Perhaps this is correct. I'm more into cutting and pasting my writings and others, but since it appears they will be deleted, though in my mind mind on topic and relevant, I will type more. :( This is a tough group and they demand answers. Rightly so. Note: This could become the longest running thread this board has ever seen, so be it. Please realize it may take me weeks to get to everyones responses, especially if we don't stay on topic. "
Sign0095

The HR forum...It's a Messianic/Hebraic Roots section on a Christian forum. And since you are clearly Hebraic Roots....you bring nothing new to the table. Same old, same old. You aren't shunned--people were asking you direct questions, refuting what you say and you give attitude instead of valid responses. You were put on moderation because of attitude and violating forum rules. Rulez

As far as you "cutting and pasting your own writings and others"----please do enlighten us with which of your posts are your own writings and those of others---with full documentation. You stated in your very first post, "I'm quite new around here and would like to post some of my writings." Is that Sabbath 101, one of your writings?

This isn't just a request. It is a requirement. Or you will proceed no further, since you clearly toss aside copyright law. 14547

Further, we don't appreciate someone joining merely to post their writings from their own website or blog or whatever---if that is the case here. I think that is covered in the forum rules. Discuss does not mean using this forum to dispense your reams of elsewhere published ideas.

In your moderated new thread,"Was the Law Abolished?" you also showed total lack of respect by your first comment,
"Does censorship prevail here, or can each read for themselves? "

Let's be clear....you are under moderation. And it is because of your snarky attitude, violation of and lack of respect for the forum rules and other posters, including admins. You have not come to discuss. You think you are here to correct and teach that which you do not even understand, and you feel you can sweep aside anything you don't like and treat it like wasted information.

I digress.

In that mess of writing you posted on the Sabbath 101, we see some interesting talmudic and kabbalistic teachings--which you wanted my opinion on, as well as from the others of the forum. So just a few quotes will give an idea of what is needed to be said.


Quote:"...On Pentecost, 5,000 were added. I recently read someone's post that pointed out that on Pentecost at Sinai 5,000 were killed "when the Law was given" and on Pentecost in Jerusalem when the Spirit descended, 5,000 were saved. .."

Oops....Beatredsmile Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Must be that new math we always hear about --89 what's a little difference... like 2000 people....

Quote:"If Pentecost means we should make any practice, then we should start observing the annual Festival and celebrate Simchat Torah (Rejoicing in the Torah), the giving of the Torah/Teaching and the giving of the Spirit."
-------- Talmud concept, pentecost was not in honor of the giving of Torah. Most messianics/HR say that pentecost is the celebration of the giving of Torah--but that is a rabbinic concept. Which you appear to agree with Mike.

Quote:"And there, breaking bread was the breaking of the Afikomen, the unleavened bread that held special meaning in the Passover Meal. Remember Yeshua's words? "This is my body which was broken for you." When the folks after Pentecost were going from house to house breaking bread, they were showing the people how that the Afikomen of the Passover Seder is fulfilled in the broken body of Yeshua. And for centuries now, in Jewish homes, one part of the bread that is broken is
hidden away until later in the meal and then it is "found."
---- Afikomen not in the Bible - it is talmudic tradition added as part of the passover seder We discussed the passover seder in http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=215

Quote:"Also, during the Havdalah service, the men each will light a candle. (Tradition has it at the beginning of Shabbat, the lady of the house lights two candles.) At the close of Shabbat all the males light candles."
-------- Havdala is done at the end of the sabbath -and is talmudic ----------- lighting of the candles is not only talmudic, it is kabbalah
--woman of the house lighting candles and waving her hands over the flame is kabbalah.

Since you are a sabbath keeper/promoter, Mike...including kabbalah and talmud beliefs, are you also advocating the talmudic belief of the awaited sabbath queen as noted from the Talmud: Shabbat 119a ?
5522

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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06-17-2009, 06:27 PM (This post was last modified: 06-17-2009 07:30 PM by Rose of Shushan.)
Post: #68
RE: Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
Quote:Actually Sabbath was given to Adam. I can't imagine the Father not telling Adam about His Sabbath after He created him. Notice it's even called the “heritage of Jacob”. (Can't find the verse at the moment, but will if you insist upon it) Abraham kept it before “Israel” even existed. Why not also check the “NT”. We are to walk as Messiah walked, right? It was His custom to be in the assembly every Sabbath.

Can you give us any verses where Adam is given the Sabbath .It was given to Israel at Sinai.The verse you cannot find is at Isaiah

Isa 58:14 Then shall you delight yourself in the LORD; and I will cause you to ride upon the heights of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it.

How can one be fed with the Sabbath I wonder.

Abraham didn-t keep the Sabbath, it had not been given yet. Maybe the verse you are thinking of is

Gen 26:5 Because Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

That doesn’t mention the Sabbath. The keeping of the Sabbath we see is introduced at Sinai to the Children of Israel.


Exo 31:12-17
(12) And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
(13) Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
(14) Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
(15) Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
(16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
(17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.


The people had no knowledge of how to keep the Sabbath or Sabbaths until Moses explained to them what God required.

Neh 9:13 You came down also upon mount Sinai, and spoke with them from heaven, and gave them right ordinances, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:
Neh 9:14 And made known unto them your holy sabbath, and commanded them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses your servant:


Eze 20:10 Therefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness.
Eze 20:11 And I gave them my statutes, and showed them my judgments, which if a man does, he shall even live by them.
Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctifies them.



It wasn’t a case that the people had been observing the Sabbath since Adam and God was just reminding them on what was to be done. The Sabbath/s was introduced at Sinai.


You say we are to walk as Messiah walked.Well lets see the Pharisees who were sticklers for obeying the law to a tee accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath.

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the grain field; and his disciples were hungry, and began to pluck the ears of grain, and to eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, your disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have you not read what David did, when he was hungry, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the showbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them who were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?


Jesus didn’t say that he didn’t break it,what he did was explain why he broke it .

Joh 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father works still, and I work.
Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.


He said his Father WORKED on the Sabbath.So there we see Jesus worked on the Sabbath.So if we were to imitate Messiah in this like you said we work on the Sabbath right ? Wink
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06-18-2009, 08:59 AM (This post was last modified: 02-22-2011 03:47 PM by Vic.)
Post: #69
RE: Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
Truth Seeker----

You do not get to post further until you address my posts to you. Is that clear? Smiley-danger

You don't answer my posts and my questions to you, you are done here. 5068

For a refresher start here > http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=344

Then go to post 67 > http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.p...=65&page=7 and please do respond.

Then go to post 16 > http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.p...=61&page=2 and please do respond.

Do not deviate from this requirement. Take this very seriously. Any other posts are going to be deleted until such time it is decided whether you can stay on here. Your post from last night was put on moderation--but it is deleted as of now.
[/size] Ban

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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06-18-2009, 07:22 PM
Post: #70
RE: Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
This is a response to Truth Seeker's post broken into parts.

PART 1


Quote:pastor: Jesus rose from the dead on a Sunday: John 20:1

truthseeker: This dogma has not been proven. The empty tomb was discovered early Sunday morning (Mt 28:1; Mk 16:1, 2; Lk 24:1). Yeshua was crucified in the afternoon and laid to rest just before sunset. He was to spend three days and three nights in the tomb, not three days and two nights or three days and four nights or one and a half days or whatever. Leave off with which day He was crucified on for now and stick with the problem at hand. Three days; three nights. Sunset to sunset-one day. Sunset to sunset - one day. Sunset to sunset - one day. Three days and three nights. And then the tomb was found empty the first thing the next morning. Good! Now we're being "Berean."

Actually, it is clear from Scripture that Jesus was raised/arose on the first day of the week. The calendar day name for that day is Sunday as we know it.

Here are the Scripts:

Matthew 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.
Mat 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it.
Mat 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
Mat 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
Mat 28:5 And the angel answered and said to the women, Fear not you: for I know that you seek Jesus, which was crucified.
Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.



Note that the text says "as it began to DAWN toward the first day of the week". "Dawn" in the Greek is G2020 epipho¯sko¯ which means "to grow light, to dawn" - from G2017 epiphauo¯ which means "to shine upon". This clearly means early morning, not early evening. Also; the word for "first day of the week" is G4521 sabbaton which means "a single sabbath, sabbath day or seven days, a week" - the "first day" means the first day of the week, which according our calendar is named Sunday.

Then, in verse 2 it says that the women had come to see the sepulcher and at the moment, was the earthquake; the angel of the Lord rolled back the stone and stated that Christ is risen.

Mark 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came to the sepulcher at the rising of the sun.
Mar 16:3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulcher?
Mar 16:4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
Mar 16:5 And entering into the sepulcher, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
Mar 16:6 And he said to them, Be not affrighted: You seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.


Note that Mark states when the sabbath was PAST and the women came "early in the morning the first day of the week" and "came to the sepulcher at the rising of the sun". Again, on Sunday/first day of the week.

I am curious how you arrive at the fact that Jesus arose during the night or after sunset because it is clear especially in Matthew 28, that the earthquake and the stone were rolled away at dawn. It tells us in Ephesians 2 that Jesus was raised with resurrection power. Are we to assume that you think Jesus arose from the dead on Saturday night and then several hours later there was an earthquake so strong that it threw the soldiers on the ground like dead men and a huge stone was rolled away? Are you saying that the power of God was delayed until long after the resurrection??? Smilies-34787 I think that has to be the weirdest thing I have ever heard 7108

One other quick question. Why didn't the women, who were anxious to prepare Jesus' body, come at dusk instead of dawn the next day. The Sabbath was over, at least according to tradition - there was nothing stopping them Stirthepot


Quote:truthseeker:
He was to spend three days and three nights in the tomb, not three days and two nights or three days and four nights or one and a half days or whatever. Leave off with which day He was crucified on for now and stick with the problem at hand. Three days; three nights. Sunset to sunset-one day. Sunset to sunset - one day. Sunset to sunset - one day. Three days and three nights. And then the tomb was found empty the first thing the next morning. Good! Now we're being "Berean."

The Scripture never states that Jesus will be in the tomb for three days and three nights. This is what Jesus actually said:

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

The heart of the earth is not necessarily the tomb/grave. When Jesus stated that He would suffer, it is likely that this can be considered part of being in the heart of the earth, not just His burial. He was betrayed, beaten, and judged, scorned and mocked, then He bore our sin and was separated from God the Father, BEFORE His death and burial. His betrayal was the privotal point - the thing that put in motion the events of His death. It's interesting to note that the NT often refers to the "night He was betrayed", incidicating the horror of His suffering and death.

Jesus prophesied on every other occasion in the Gospels, that He would rise ON the third day. Also, according to Scripture, a part of a day can equal a full day as we see in the OT. Please note as well, that the length of the day changed with the difference in rising and setting of the sun - which can vary several hours dependent on the season of the year.

Mat 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to show to his disciples, how that he must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

This phrase - raised again the third day - appears 13 times in the Gospels. And also in Acts and in 1 Corinthians:

Act 10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and showed him openly;

1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day
according to the scriptures:
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