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Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
12-27-2008, 03:33 PM
Post: #1
Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
There are a few major points that Messianics/Hebrew Roots advocates claim show that Christians are "lawless" and serve a "lawless Messiah". One of them is in reference to keeping the Sabbath, not only one of the ten commandments initially given to Moses, but also mentioned in other passages in the OT. Some also claim Jesus kept the Sabbath so we should too.

What many miss is the difference in before Christ was crucified and rose from the dead---and after. In the NT only nine of the ten commandments are mentioned--and the missing commandment is the 4th-the Keeping of the sabbath day.


1st commandment in Mat 22:37, 1Cor. 8:5-6
2nd commandment in 1John. 5:21, also Col 3:5 and Eph 5:5
3rd commandment in Col 3:8
5th commandment in Eph 6:1-3
6th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th commandments in Rom 13:8-10, Mat 19:18, Gal 5:14, 1Cor 6:9-10, and Gal 5:19-21


Only the sabbath rest is mentioned in the NT, which is Christ, and not the keeping of the sabbath law.

Some suggest that Sunday is also a sinful or disobedient time if that is used as a set apart time for worshipping God, instead of Saturday.

1. Sunday is the beginning of the week--a renewal from the past weeks work and such, and reminder of renewal in Christ--and Saturday--traditonally the Sabbath, was at the end of the weeks work, a time for rest--most people have Saturday and Sunday "off"...
2. Jesus rose from the grave early Sunday morning which fulfilled The promise of being risen and so on...
3. Jesus promised to give all those who believe in Him, rest...spiritual, physical and emotional


Mat 11:28-30
(28) Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
(29) Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
(30) For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Hebrews speaks of God's rest---given in Christ

Heb 3:1-7
(1) Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
(2) Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
(3) For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
(4) For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
(5) And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
(6) But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
(7) Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

Heb 3:8-19
(8) Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
(9) When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
(10) Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
(11) So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
(12) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
(13) But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
(14) For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
(15) While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
(16) For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
(17) But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
(18) And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
(19) So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

For those who have entered Christ's rest by beleiving Him and repenting from sin, we are to rest in Him day in and day out---because to step away from His rest is to return to doing things in the flesh--which can never please God. For those who say this is lacking, because we seek rest in Him daily rather than simply one day a week--I must ask...do you rest in Christ...or not? :anyone:

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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12-27-2008, 03:42 PM
Post: #2
RE: Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
ANYONE?

YEAHHH ME
BUT I DO LIKE THE CONCEPT OF 7TH DAY REMEMBER THE CREATOR AND FORGET ALL THE TROUBLE ABD BUSY BUSY OF THE WEEK

EMJE10294<----this is me


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12-27-2008, 04:02 PM
Post: #3
RE: Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
(12-27-2008 03:42 PM)Emjesown Wrote:  ANYONE?

YEAHHH ME
BUT I DO LIKE THE CONCEPT OF 7TH DAY REMEMBER THE CREATOR AND FORGET ALL THE TROUBLE ABD BUSY BUSY OF THE WEEK

EMJE10294<----this is me



I think we all need a rest from it all, especially physically but our rest and renewal really does come from Christ

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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12-27-2008, 04:30 PM
Post: #4
RE: Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
(12-27-2008 03:42 PM)Emjesown Wrote:  ANYONE?

YEAHHH ME
BUT I DO LIKE THE CONCEPT OF 7TH DAY REMEMBER THE CREATOR AND FORGET ALL THE TROUBLE ABD BUSY BUSY OF THE WEEK

EMJE10294<----this is me



You reminded me, emje 17434

Something puzzles me. I often hear that Messianics get together on Shabbat at their congregational meeting place or in private homes, studying and then having oneg, etc. So I wonder how all this extra work is considered keeping the Shabbat.

I know that when I used to have Shabbat at my house, it meant tons of preparation, cooking, cleaning, etc - and not just on Friday before sundown. One still has to put things out, serve guests, hustle up food, cleanup, put stuff away, keep on eye on extra kids, some travel a long ways, and manage a house full of guests. I was exhausted by the end of the day. When I met with others in a church, tables and chairs had to be set up, posters and pictures hung up, and the entire room rearranged to accomodate people in order to do Shabbat together. Then it all had to be torn down, the kitchen cleaned up, food put away or wrapped to take home, etc - not to mention all the other details.

So how is all of this considered Torah observant Sabbath keeping Thinking21958
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12-27-2008, 05:12 PM
Post: #5
RE: Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
hello everyone,

Good topic here for today being the sabbath heres a few passages from Old and New testaments on the sabbath

Exd 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.


Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Been reading this blog last few weeks and enjoyed the topics and posts.

If Jesus is Lord also of the sabbath would'nt that seem to suggest that the sabbath day itself still exists and that he is Lord of it? Just a thought

Or in other words how can He be Lord of something which does not exist?

I witness personally bad things happen when people use the sabbath as a means of superiority over another but this is not exclusive to the sabbath day as anyone within christian circles knows this superiority spirit is found within christian exlcusive doctrines like the rapture or speaking in tongues that if one does not as the adherant they are looked down upon.


Guess the Real Queston is how does God and Jesus view the sabbath day.

Blessings to all
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12-27-2008, 06:17 PM
Post: #6
RE: Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
(12-27-2008 05:12 PM)malawk Wrote:  hello everyone,

Good topic here for today being the sabbath heres a few passages from Old and New testaments on the sabbath
...Been reading this blog last few weeks and enjoyed the topics and posts.

If Jesus is Lord also of the sabbath would'nt that seem to suggest that the sabbath day itself still exists and that he is Lord of it? Just a thought

Or in other words how can He be Lord of something which does not exist?
...

Guess the Real Queston is how does God and Jesus view the sabbath day.

Blessings to all

031

Welcome to the forum Malawk, glad you decided to post. umm...aren't you breaking the sabbath, writing to a forum and posting on it? 16898

I think that God views it a priority to enter into His rest--that only comes through Christ...everything else is secondary at best. If a person sees every day as entering into Christ's rest--can we really argue that point as being unbiblical or being lawless?

Rom 14:5-6
(5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
(6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.


Again, welcome Malawk.
2-NEW-grouphug02

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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12-27-2008, 06:47 PM (This post was last modified: 12-27-2008 06:50 PM by Rose of Shushan.)
Post: #7
RE: Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
Hi Malawk Welcome
glad you decided to jump in and post!

The Sabbaths we know, were signs and shadows of the reality which is Messiah.
The true meaning of the Sabbath wasn’t just the cessation of work and rest for the body but was also spiritual.Work wasn’t the primary issue here obviously since the priests did work as shown here


Mat 12:5 Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?



In the NT we see that the Sabbath is something which the believer is no longer commanded to "keep". It makes sense the gospel was to go out into the whole world with every culture. How could the gentiles keep a sign which hadn’t been given to them. They came into the new covenant and not to the old of Sinai. Or are we suggesting that Paul was teaching gentiles to stone Sabbath breakers? Instead this is what we see

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in food, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Jesus is that rest.

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you shall find rest unto your souls.



So if he who gives us that rest is come, isn’t the Sabbath also fulfilled? The sign given to the Israelites was fulfilled in Christ.
I am also reminded of what Paul said to the Galatians who were being influenced by those of the Circumcision/judiasers.


Gal 4:9 But now, after you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn you again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?
Gal 4:10 You observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Gal 4:11 I am afraid for you, lest I have bestowed upon you labor in vain.

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12-27-2008, 07:40 PM
Post: #8
RE: Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
Thanks Vic and Rose for the welcome,

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in food, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

This is interesting passage here because in the kjv at least it is saying they "are" presently a shadow of the thing to "come" future?

present tense from when paul wrote this which was after Christ was risen?

So if he who gives us that rest is come, isn’t the Sabbath also fulfilled? The sign given to the Israelites was fulfilled in Christ.
I am also reminded of what Paul said to the Galatians who were being influenced by those of the Circumcision/judiasers.


Do you mean by fulfilled here that there is no more sabbath day or 7th day set apart from the other 6 and that to God each day is exactly the same?

Quote:I am also reminded of what Paul said to the Galatians who were being influenced by those of the Circumcision/judiasers.

Gal 4:9 But now, after you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn you again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?
Gal 4:10 You observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Gal 4:11 I am afraid for you, lest I have bestowed upon you labor in vain.

This then also begs the question if Paul was speaking against himself here in acts...

Act 18:21 But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

to an onlooker on this topic or someone seeking the truth of the feasts days and sabbath day they are presented with the two extreme stances being proclaimed by believers in Jesus

1) They are fulfilled in Christ and are no longer meant to be observed

2) They are fulfilled in Christ and are meant to be fulfilled in us by observing them
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12-27-2008, 08:32 PM
Post: #9
RE: Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
Quote:This then also begs the question if Paul was speaking against himself here in acts...

Act 18:21 But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

Malawk,Wave

I am not too sure at the point you were trying to make there but I'll assume that you mean, if Paul was going against himself when he wrote of not being under the Law and yet he says he is going to a feast. If that is so, that’s a good point you bring up there and I have been reading closely Acts 18 to 21 to get the whole context.

It seems Paul greatly wanted to go to Jerusalem


Act 19:21 After these things were ended, Paul purposed in the spirit, when he had passed through Macedonia and Achaia, to go to Jerusalem, saying, After I have been there, I must also see Rome.
Act 20:22 And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there:
Act 20:23 Except that the Holy Spirit witnesses in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions await me.


But look what happens in Acts 21. The Holy spirit warns him not to go.

Act 21:4 And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.


Paul in his zealousness and love for his brethren goes. What follows is that he does go and we see him paying the expenses of the four men who had taken a vow. There is no mention of a feast perse (as in Passover etc ) going on at the time so I'm wondering what Paul referred to. We see that a riot breaks out before the seven days of the vow are completed and Paul is arrested.
Perhaps Paul wanted to use the chance of one of the upcoming feasts ,since jerusalem at that time would be full of people, to witness to his jewish brethren and to update the believers on what was happening..

We do see that Paul didn’t go up to Jerusalem three times a year for the feasts and in one verse it explicitly confirms it


Gal 2:1 Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.

So the way I see that point that you brought up is that Paul may have wanted to go up for a particular feast but that didn’t mean he did so three times a year every year ,as the Mosaic Law commanded.
We see that Paul himself said


1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law of Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.


So I see no contradiction in that Paul would go along with certain things in the Law at certain times, when it would further his witness to jews.
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12-27-2008, 08:55 PM (This post was last modified: 12-27-2008 09:01 PM by Rose of Shushan.)
Post: #10
RE: Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ
Quote:Thanks Vic and Rose for the welcome,

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in food, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

This is interesting passage here because in the kjv at least it is saying they "are" presently a shadow of the thing to "come" future?

present tense from when paul wrote this which was after Christ was risen?

Well the shadow of things to come, which were fulfilled in Christ. We see the same thing in the book of Hebrews

Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he would not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, says he, that you make all things according to the pattern showed to you in the mount.
Heb 8:6 But now has he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in foods and drinks, and various washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come a high priest of good things to come,
by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.


Heb 9:24 For Christ has not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Heb 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest enters into the holy place every year with blood of others;
Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the age has he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.


Or are you suggesting that the things to come were something else?
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