Article: Under the Law

[sheep wrecked]

(10-24-2010 03:05 PM)sari83 Wrote:  

Quote:Matt 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
(KJV)

I've been thinking a lot about Matt 5:18, and I've concluded that Christ is literally speaking of all being fulfilled when His Kingdom comes to earth. That is why He used the analogy of heaven and earth passing away. His word will endure until heaven and earth passes away.


Rev 21:1-6
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
(KJV)

The only problem I see with interpreting the way you have it there, is that that Matt 5:17, 18 refer to the Mosaic Law, not the entire Word of God. The Mosaic Law was a covenant, fulfilled completely in Christ.

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(10-16-2010 03:15 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  Do you not agree that learning comes by reading the written Word of God? It is the Holy Spirit that gives us understanding, but I am not sure about the concept of "learning from the Holy Spirit". Could you define that a little bit more?
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Sarah:

1 Cor 2:10-16
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
(KJV)

We learn with our minds, not our spirits, so I don't think that Paul is saying that we learn from the Holy Spirit directly. In other words, many people believe that we hear a voice and that is how the Holy Spirit "teaches". If we look at other Scriptures, we can see that Paul is referring to a spiritual process whereby wisdom and understanding is given by the Holy Spirit, but "learning" is a mind "thang" In other words, our minds are renewed spiritually.

* I bolded and underlined some phrasing in the 1 Cor passage above

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

2Co 1:12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

1Ti 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Heb 13:18 Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

1Pe 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

1Pe 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

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(10-21-2010 12:37 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  I am not sure what you mean by "anti-semitism and the early church fathers". Perhaps you could provide an example to clarify that.
[quote]

Sarah:

"Epistle of Barnabas" Chapter 4vs 6-7 (between 130A.D. and 138 A.D.)


Justin Martyr - Dialogue with Trypho (Between 138A.D. and 161 A.D.)


Origen of Alexandria (185-254 A.D.) – A ecclesiastical writer and teacher who contributed to the early formation of Christian doctrines.


John Chrysostom (344-407 A.D.) – One of the "greatest" of church fathers; known as "The Golden Mouthed." A missionary preacher famous for his sermons and addresses.


St. Augustine (c. 354-430 A.D.), Confessions, 12.14


Peter the Venerable [1095 - 1156 AD]– known as "the meekest of men, a model of Christian charity"


Martin Luther – 1543

John Calvin

I wasn't really referring to Luther or Calvin. I don't consider them "early" Luther recanted at the end of his life of the rude things he said.

I probably should have asked you to define "early church fathers" as it looks like we all have a different perspective as to who that is. I agree that the Catholic position is anti-semitic and has continued through the centuries.

Personally, I don't consider the epistle of Barnabas to be a credible source as a "church father". That book is a gnostic "gospel". However; what was spoken there does not appear to be anti-semitic, at least to me.

Justin Martyr and Origen are simply reiterating what the prophets and Jesus Himself said. Are you saying that the Bible is anti-semitic?

Chrysostom, Augustine, and Peter the Venerable were Catholics, so I don't consider them church "fathers". For Catholicism, yes, but not for Christianity.

I suppose that we could consider Jesus and the apostles anti-semitic, because what He said, and what Peter and Jude wrote could be considered more so than what was quoted.

[sari83]

(10-21-2010 12:37 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  I suppose that we could consider Jesus and the apostles anti-semitic, because what He said, and what Peter and Jude wrote could be considered more so than what was quoted.
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I beg to differ, Jesus and the disciples were Jews (Israelites), and the first generations of the church were predominantly Jewish Christians. The ill words spoken by Jesus were to the religious leaders and authorities of His day. (not the people, not Israel) It is evident in Jesus' words, the gospels, and other NT books the He was sent to redeem the House of Israel, and that Israel is still and always will be a part of His plan.


Matt 10:5-6
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(KJV)

Matt 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(KJV)

Matt 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
(KJV)

Matt 27:11
And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.
(KJV)

Mark 12:29
Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
(KJV)


Luke 2:25-32
And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
(KJV)

Luke 2:34
And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
(KJV)

Luke 22:30
That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
(KJV)

John 1:49
Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
(KJV)

John 12:13
Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
(KJV)

Acts 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
(KJV)

Acts 5:31
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
(KJV)

Acts 13:23
Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
(KJV)

Acts 28:20
For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
(KJV)

Rom 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
(KJV)

Heb 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(KJV)

Rev 7:4
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
(KJV)

Rev 21:12
And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
(KJV)

[sheep wrecked]

(10-25-2010 11:16 AM)sari83 Wrote:  I beg to differ, Jesus and the disciples were Jews (Israelites), and the first generations of the church were predominantly Jewish Christians. The ill words spoken by Jesus were to the religious leaders and authorities of His day. (not the people, not Israel) It is evident in Jesus' words, the gospels, and other NT books the He was sent to redeem the House of Israel, and that Israel is still and always will be a part of His plan.

The Jews, as a nation, rejected Jesus Christ. At the beginning there were many Jewish converts, but as the Gospel was preached to the nations, they became the minority, because of the national rejection of Christ.

Mat 8:5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,
Mat 8:6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
Mat 8:7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
Mat 8:8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
Mat 8:9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
Mat 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
Mat 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Mat 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Mat 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Mat 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Mat 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
Mat 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Mat 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
Mat 21:46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

Mat 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

Jesus died for all Jews who would come to Him. There will be no second chance for a "nation" of Jewish people. There is only one nation in God now > the true seed of Abraham are those who are in Christ.

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

[sheep wrecked]

It has come to our attention that the thread has gone completely off track.

The OP [original post] had put a link in it to Vic's article on kosher and we would really like to keep it within that perimeter. The purpose of this section is to discuss what Vic has posted on her website. So if a newbie starts a new thread in this section, it must remain a discussion on the topic from Vic's website.

Newbies are more than welcome to join threads that are already established to discuss other topics.

Let get back on track!

http://www.seekgod.ca/hr/hrfaqs3a2.htm#kosher

Myth. We need to keep all the Biblical feasts or Jewish celebrations and eat kosher food in order to be Torah observant (keep the law) and obedient and show we belong to God.


Myth. The Vision of the Sheet which Peter had, found in Acts 10, refers strictly to people, and does not include food, like Christians believe. We are to keep kosher, and not eat certain foods because that violates Torah.

What part of the article are you in disagreement with?

[sari83]

< mod note > The content of this post has been deleted from this thread, but can be found on page 5 of the "Did Peter's Vision of the Sheet Mean People & Food. The redirect link is:

http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.p...29#pid6529

[sheep wrecked]

< mod note > The content of this post has been deleted from this thread, but can be found on page 5 of the "Did Peter's Vision of the Sheet Mean People & Food. The redirect link is:

http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.p...29#pid6529

[sari83]

< mod note > The content of this post has been deleted from this thread, but can be found on page 5 of the "Did Peter's Vision of the Sheet Mean People & Food. The redirect link is:

http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.p...29#pid6529

[sheep wrecked]

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