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Where does Scripture say Jesus is God?

Vic
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#31

(04-13-2016, 05:39 PM)TurntoGod Wrote: I have been looking into this topic for a while now and was struggling with it. I find that each side has very good points. For me personally I have come to the conclusion that it does not matter very much if he is GOD in flesh or only the son of GOD being a distinct and totally separate entity. Because in the end he fulfilled the promises made of messiah save for a few which are to be fulfilled later. We are saved through faith in GOD and his ability to save us and our willingness to be obedient to him. We see that promise of salvation fulfilled through Jesus/Yeshuah. So either way we are saved by grace through faith by the blood shed at his death on the cross because he was sinless. If he was GOD or just son of GOD, he still freed us from the penalty of the law which is death and was raised to life so that we may have eternal life by the power and grace of GOD.
So in the end GOD saves, GOD gives life, Jesus tells us to pray to and worship GOD the father. So I thank Jesus for what he has done, by him I saved. But I focus my praise, glory and honor to GOD the father. If they are one, I am praising Jesus anyway. if they are separate, I am giving praise and glory to the one who ultimately deserves all of it.

If you find me in error in this view please share with me as I wish to grow in my faith and want my views to be tested.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I think it's imperative to have an understanding of who Jesus Christ is. Otherwise it can skew our understanding of the Scriptures. For example:

Joh 1:1-4
(1)  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(2)  The same was in the beginning with God.
(3)  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
(4)  In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Joh 1:6-11

(6)  There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
(7)  The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
(8)  He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
(9)  That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
(10)  He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
(11)  He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Joh 1:12-14
(12)  But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
(13)  Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
(14)  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


1Ti 3:16
(16)  And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


The question is, what do these verses mean to you, if not the divinity of Christ?
Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4  I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31  But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

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TurntoGod
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#32

I did not say that Jesus did not exist before his presence here on earth. I just feel that Father God, and his son Jesus are two different entities separate from one another but still of the same essence. My son is a part of me, I am a part of him genetically. Yet we are still completely different entities. If I were to build a house and my son wanted he could help me build that house, he could even build it entirely on his own if he so chose.


Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I think it's imperative to have an understanding of who Jesus Christ is. Otherwise it can skew our understanding of the Scriptures. For example:


Joh 1:1-4
(1)  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(2)  The same was in the beginning with God.
(3)  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
(4)  In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


This scripture is indeed a mystery as later in that same chapter

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
&
29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

All of which indicate that Jesus is a separate entity, "him (Jesus), to them (believers) gave he power to become sons of GOD" it did not say become sons of christ, or sons of Jesus.
in 13 again it uses of God, not Jesus or christ.
in 14 it describes Jesus "Word made flesh, and dwelt among us" as "the only begotten of the Father"
in 29 It again seperates him from God saying is his the Lamb OF God, nothing like the lamb of God being God in the flesh.

Joh 1:6-11

(6)  There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
(7)  The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
(8)  He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
(9)  That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
(10)  He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
(11)  He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Just because Jesus has the power of God and through Jesus the world could have been made does not mean he is God, merely that he has his authority and power. Which we can have some of today, as his prophets throughout the old testament had as well.

Joh 1:12-14
(12)  But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
(13)  Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
(14)  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Does seem to lead to some credence of the view that Jesus is God as it said earlier that the "Word was God" though it does take the effort to separate him from being the Father in that same verse.

1Ti 3:16
(16)  And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


That verse could vary a great deal depending on how you chose to translate manifest.
Strongs
phaneroō

1) to make manifest or visible or known what has been hidden or unknown, to manifest, whether by words, or deeds, or in any other way

1a) make actual and visible, realised
1b) to make known by teaching
1c) to become manifest, be made known
1d) of a person

1d1) expose to view, make manifest, to show one' s self, appear

1e) to become known, to be plainly recognised, thoroughly understood

1e1) who and what one is

One way could be God was made viewable by donning human flesh, thus God becomes a man, but when taking more of the definition into play I feel a better translation would be God was made known through the flesh (which would be Jesus). Justified in the spirit. obviously through his baptism in the river with John the spirit obviously justified him. Seen of angels, if he existed before earth he would have been in heaven and seen by angels, he was also seen and ministered to by angels after his testing in the wilderness. Preached unto the gentiles, so did Jonah. Believed in the world, and received up in glory, obviously his death and resurrection showed both of these.

The question is, what do these verses mean to you, if not the divinity of Christ?


I do not have all the answers and these scriptures do give some amount of evidence toward the view of Christ being the same as God. But when I read more of it, and Jesus continually separates himself from the father.
ex
Mark 10
17As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 18And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.

Matthew 6
8"So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him. 9"Pray, then, in this way: 'Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. 10'Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven.…

Luke 22
42saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done." 43Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him.…
(again seen by angels)

Jesus does not claim to be good, as God is. He says "Our Father in heaven" not "Our Jesus". He separates his will from the Fathers.

There are more that show this idea, and my point is that there seem to be some scriptures that point toward him being OF God, and some that point to him BEING God. I personally feel there is more toward OF God so I lean in that direction. I also put the words of Jesus himself above those of his apostles. If the Old testament or Jesus said it and an apostle says something that seems to contradict what was said then either the apostle is wrong or we are misunderstanding them. In the end as I said praise the Father and you cannot go wrong, and I give praise to what Jesus has done, and I confess him and the Father as lord of my life as they have both earned that in more ways than can ever be written. I submit my will to Jesus and the Father, Jesus carries the Fathers authority the same as a prince holds the authority of the king. As such I owe them both my full allegiance and shall obey any command given by them. That does not mean however that they are the same entity, same authority yes.

Could you give me an example of skewing that would occur in a scripture if I took it under the understanding that Jesus was the son of God only, rather than God in flesh? Other than scriptures used to try and describe him as one way or the other. And how that skewed view might effect your beliefs in important areas of christianity.
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Lois
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#33
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2016, 11:21 PM by Lois.)

The deity of Jesus Christ is an essential Christian belief that cannot be disregarded. It's important to understand that Scriptures clearly teach that Jesus was and is God.

GOD the Father called Jesus “God” in Hebrews 1:8 saying, “But to the Son He (God the Father) says: Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.” (He was quoting Psalm 45:6-7)

Paul called Jesus “the great God and our Savior”

Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
 
Thomas called Jesus "my Lord and my God"

Joh 20:28  And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Peter called Jesus "God".

2Pe 1:1  Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Acts 20:28 says God's blood was shed for the church.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jesus is called "the mighty God, The everlasting Father" in Isaiah 9:6


Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Col 2:9 For in him(Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

dwelleth
katoikeo¯
kat-oy-keh'-o
From G2596 and G3611; to house permanently, that is, reside (literally or figuratively): - dwell (-er), inhabitant (-ter).

Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him(Jesus) should all fulness dwell;

dwell
katoikeo¯
kat-oy-keh'-o
From G2596 and G3611; to house permanently, that is, reside (literally or figuratively): - dwell (-er), inhabitant (-ter).

I don't believe that Scriptures teach that Jesus ever separated himself from God the father ever.I mentioned in a previous post that Jesus took the name of God revealed to Moses in the burning bush in Exodus 3:14 (I AM) and applied it to Himself in John 8:58. In John 5:18.

Jesus also said "I and my Father are one"

John 10:30  I and my Father are one.

Jesus later said "the Father is in me, and I in him."

Joh 10:37  If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38  But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Jesus did not continually separate himself from the Father. He clearly taught that they were one and the same.

John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Jesus said "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" clearly not separating himself from the Father.
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.(2John 1:9)
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TurntoGod
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#34

(05-07-2016, 11:15 PM)First off I would like to thank you for your reply. I would also like to apologize that it took me so long to respond. The scriptures you gave certainly deserve study and I did my best to study them thoroughly.Lois Wrote: The deity of Jesus Christ is an essential Christian belief that cannot be disregarded. It's important to understand that Scriptures clearly teach that Jesus was and is God.

I can agree that it is a very common Christian belief, but I do not see how it is an "essential" one. Jesus came, he lived a sinless life, and died for our sins, and rose from the dead after 3 days and 3 nights. Those are the important facts of Jesus' life on earth. He could do that as the son of God only or as God in flesh. Why is it that you believe that it is essential?


GOD the Father called Jesus “God” in Hebrews 1:8 saying, “But to the Son He (God the Father) says: Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.” (He was quoting Psalm 45:6-7)

By looking at the scripture you give later we can see that there is more than one meaning for God/god in the new testament, and since the name of Father God is not used in any greek texts it can be hard to distinguish.  If you you keep reading in John 10
[b]33
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? (From Psalm 82:06)
35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
39Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

So accourding to this then you can conclude that Jesus being the son of God could be called god without being God. Since as a son of God that would leave him to be a god. The son of a bird is a bird, son of a man is still a man. Also in
Luke 3:8
the son of Enosh,
[/b]
the son of Seth, the son of Adam,
the son of God.

Adam the first man is also called a son of God, to me this means we are all sons of God but we are of the seed of Adam so the nature and curse of sin is passed down through the blood which is why Jesus has no earthly father so that his blood could be of pure seed of God.

So to reply to your comment Jesus is called God because he is the son of God which makes him a god but not necessarily The God, Father of heaven and earth. And there are plenty of other scriptures out there that say Jesus will have a throne in heaven, God is simply saying that his throne will be there throughout eternity. If this is not the meaning how do you reconcile these scriptures if any son God is GOD the Father then



Paul called Jesus “the great God and our Savior”

Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
 
Thomas called Jesus "my Lord and my God"

Joh 20:28  And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

The scriptures above could easily be explained by the details I listed above. He is a God but not GOD the Father.

Peter called Jesus "God".

2Pe 1:1  Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

We obtained precious faith through the righteousness of God AND our Saviour Jesus Christ. This could just as easily say "through the righteousness of Father God and through the righteousness of our Saviour Jesus Christ." The grammer of this sentence does not lead me to believe that Peter is calling Jesus the same as GOD the Father

Acts 20:28 says God's blood was shed for the church.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

This scripture certainly gives me an initial impression that God the Father's blood was shed. The only way this would fit into the paradigm that Jesus is not the Father would be that the blood of humans is passed down via the male's side if not factually it is the way the culture of Israel saw it. As such since Father God is the only "male" for lack of a better term in Jesus' direct lineage that would make his blood the same as the Fathers. This could be a weak explanation of this particular scripture and may need more review to confirm that it is saying the Father's blood is what was shed literally.

Jesus is called "the mighty God, The everlasting Father" in Isaiah 9:6

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

This as well is an interesting verse being called everlasting Father does seem to indicate that he may be the Father GOD. Though this is also a prophecy and some things can be taken literally and others not. If it is taken literally then is it possible that Jesus is a Father to us, but not the Father of Heaven of which Jesus spoke? Perhaps. It could be saying that Jesus will come and he will be the Father of heaven and earth.

Col 2:9 For in him(Jesus) dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

dwelleth
katoikeo¯
kat-oy-keh'-o
From G2596 and G3611; to house permanently, that is, reside (literally or figuratively): - dwell (-er), inhabitant (-ter).

God dwells in us through the Holy Spirit. Does that make us God the Father?
Ephesians 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Also Jesus was the fullness of what God the Father is like, we are supposed to have Jesus as our example of how to live, we are to "be like Christ". In turn Jesus was "like God the Father".


Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him(Jesus) should all fulness dwell;

dwell
katoikeo¯
kat-oy-keh'-o
From G2596 and G3611; to house permanently, that is, reside (literally or figuratively): - dwell (-er), inhabitant (-ter).

I don't believe that Scriptures teach that Jesus ever separated himself from God the father ever.I mentioned in a previous post that Jesus took the name of God revealed to Moses in the burning bush in Exodus 3:14 (I AM) and applied it to Himself in John 8:58. In John 5:18.

From what I see in John 5:18 and the scriptures surrounding it he is clearly saying he is the son of GOD and the Jews were under the impression that because he said that he was the son of GOD that he was placing himself equal with GOD. Which to some extent he may have been, but being another's equal does not make them the same being. The verse in exodus at the beginning of the even clearly says that the angel of the LORD appeared to Moses. I think that the angel of the LORD is Jesus prebirth. And he was there at creation, he was also the one that was the fire Moses saw. If you keep reading a little further in Exodus 3 he (the angel of the LORD, the I AM, who is a god being the son of god) says.

15
And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.


Jesus also said "I and my Father are one"

John 10:30  I and my Father are one.

Verse just prior to that shows the seperation between them
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I again think that Jesus is simply trying to explain to them that he is the one and only son of God and they see that as blasphemy. And continually through out that area of scripture he refutes to the GOD of Heaven as his father. I think he means in verse 30 that he is of his Fathers lineage, and they are of one purpose and goal.

Jesus later said "the Father is in me, and I in him."

Exactly, how can the Father be in himself, would he not phrase it differently if he meant what you are trying to say? perhaps something more along the lines of "I am the Father" not "THE Father is in me.

Joh 10:37  If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38  But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Jesus did not continually separate himself from the Father. He clearly taught that they were one and the same.

John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Jesus said "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" clearly not separating himself from the Father.

If Jesus was supposed to be the perfect lamb of GOD and was supposed to be our example and was a perfect example of what we should be and the perfect one we should be like is ultimately the Father of heaven, of course he would say that. He is the perfect example of the Father in heaven living on earth. To me he is saying there "he that has seen me has seen the perfect reflection of the Father" but again throughout this verse he does not say things in a way that would insinuate that he himself is the Father. He does not say I am the Father made flesh.  He also does not say I am the Father and I am in myself.

The examples you have given are certainly ones that I needed to read more of as they have revealed to me more of the nature of Jesus. Though most except the two I mentioned, do not seem to have a strong indication that Jesus is saying that he is actually the Father God in heaven in the flesh on earth. I can certainly see how someone would think that if raised with the view that Jesus is GOD the Father. But when read with the context of the entire chapter, and with other scriptures I do not see how this view stands up to scrutiny. These along with the examples I have given in my previous posts show to me that Jesus was sent by God the Father, not that God the Father himself was transmogrified into a man. Jesus also seems to have been around at creation, with Abraham, and with Moses, along side and perhaps even creating with GOD the Father. That does not mean that Jesus has always existed since he is the Son of God he came from God, God the Father throughout the old testament says there is none like him and that he has always existed, how and when Jesus came to be is a mystery that may never really be known.

Thank you for taking the time to bring me these examples, hopefully I can take more time to review them to see if God will reveal something more or different to me.
I also would like to again ask, why does Jesus have to be GOD? You said it was an essential belief. I am still unsure why you see it that way. Please explain.

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Lois
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#35
(This post was last modified: 05-29-2016, 10:13 PM by Lois.)

Hi Turnto,

I like the name change.

The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is a historical fact that even scholarly Agnostics and Atheists will agree to. Merely believing historical facts does not save anyone but I digress.   

I believe that all that Scriptures teach us is essential.I don't believe that we can disregard anything from Scripture as being non essential.

How God reveals himself to us through the Scriptures should be considered essential don't you think?

You said "I have come to the conclusion that it does not matter very much if he is GOD in flesh or only the son of GOD being a distinct and totally separate entity."
 
It matters that Jesus is God because that is what God reveals to us in the Scriptures.

How God reveals himself to us through his word should matter, don't you think?

Scripture says the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost are one.

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Scripture says God laid down his life for us.

1Jn 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

In Isa 40:3 Jesus is called LORD and God by whom?

Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

How many Scriptures are you disregarding now because you believe that calling Jesus LORD and God doesn't mean he is THE LORD,   or God?-Even though Scriptures say they are one, if you have seen one you have seen the other.

God said He changes not and Jesus Christ doesn't change either. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Mal 3:6  For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Heb 13:8  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

How do you reconcile verses like Zec 12:10 with your beliefs? In Zec 12:10 God states that he was pierced but Jesus was the one pierced?

For context so people can see that it is the LORD that is speaking.
Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

God has declared Himself to be the only Savior. That rules out anyone else but Him being our Savior.

Isa 43:11  I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isa 43:3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.

How do you reconcile Isa 45:23 and Php 2:10?
Isa 45:23 God says every knee will bow to him but Php 2:10 says every knee will bow to Jesus.


Isa 45:21  Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Quote:"Adam the first man is also called a son of God, to me this means we are all sons of God but we are of the seed of Adam so the nature and curse of sin is passed down through the blood which is why Jesus has no earthly father so that his blood could be of pure seed of God.

So to reply to your comment Jesus is called God because he is the son of God which makes him a god but not necessarily The God, Father of heaven and earth. And there are plenty of other scriptures out there that say Jesus will have a throne in heaven, God is simply saying that his throne will be there throughout eternity. If this is not the meaning how do you reconcile these scriptures if any son God is GOD the Father then"
Not to get to far off topic but can you provide the Scriptures that say "the nature and curse of sin is passed down through the blood"?  

I don't need to reconcile any Scriptures because I never said "any son God is God the Father. I also never said that Jesus was Father God.


Quote:"God dwells in us through the Holy Spirit. Does that make us God the Father?"
No it does not.

Does Scripture say anywhere that the "fullness of the Godhead" dwells in a believer, or is that something that was uniquely said about Jesus?


Quote:"Exactly, how can the Father be in himself, would he not phrase it differently if he meant what you are trying to say?"
I am not saying what you are implying.

I was not raised with the view that Jesus is God the Father. I'm not sure where you are getting that from because it isn't in anything that I posted?

I'm curious, what Scriptures lead you to believe that Jesus is not God?
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.(2John 1:9)
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browner
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#36
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2017, 10:22 AM by browner.)

Dozens of places, such as it was prophesied that "Emmanuel" would come and be with us
when it was referring to Jesus being born. This word means "God with us".
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Vic
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#37

(02-28-2017, 10:21 AM)browner Wrote: Dozens of places, such as it was prophesied that "Emmanuel" would come and be with us
when it was referring to Jesus being born. This word means "God with us".

Have to agree with that. Th_goodpoint   Answering, but also a test 'reply' post. Seems to work. Smiley-face-thumb
Vic
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3John 1:4  I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31  But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

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