Post Reply 
What's the True Name of God?
04-25-2011, 07:10 PM (This post was last modified: 04-26-2011 10:06 AM by Vic.)
Post: #101
RE: What's the True Name of God?
(04-24-2011 05:08 PM)NearYah Wrote:  [Now that I’ve addressed everything in the covenant thread, I’d like to dig into this topic a little deeper. However, you seem to have your mind made-up on what the name is so I don’t want to be the one doing most of the talking. I’ll let that be done by you to defend your ground. Trust me, this does not mean I will be silent on the issue. Let me first offend Mr. Ginsburg study by saying this to you. The man you’re learning from isn’t an Yisra’elite. We should stop right there and not assume what he says to be 100% accurate. I think Josepheus taught us a good lesson in that. So let’s carefully asses the information you’ve provided. But before we get into this I want to point to one small thing. I have never been a member of a sacred name crowd, so if they are affecting me it is indirectly through truth. The sacred name movement has nothing to do with Holman ChristianStudy Bible, which tells us his name is Yahweh, which is short for Yah.
Quote:Psalm 68:4 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
4 Sing to God! Sing praises to His name.
Exalt Him who rides on the clouds [a] —
His name is Yahweh —and rejoice before Him. (A)
Footnotes:
a. Psalm 68:4 Or rides through the desert
b. Psalm 68:4 Lit Yah
So let’s revisit that point using strong’s concordance, which I’m not a fan of by the way, but I’ll stick with it because it seems to be something you rely on heavily. You said that Yah is short-hand for Jehovah according to this Ginsburg and strong’s. Why the switch-up of the Jah to Jeh or Yah to Yeh?

Strongs word # 3050
1) Jah (Jehovah in the shortened form)


Actually Nearyah, I don't have to prove anything beyond that scholarship, provable facts and Scripture. It is you that has failed to prove anything, other than present an opinion which you expect to be taken as gospel so to speak. Holman Christian Bible is now your proof of paleo hebrew being the actual hebrew aka the actual true scriptures or source for the name? It's based on the same sources as NIV, etc. Nestle Aland, Metzger, Wescott and Hort, etc manuscripts. And that is your research?

I use Strong's, Thayer's, BDB and similar for presentation in the forum or my articles for readers. Higher Truth also sourced the codexes-and gave links to them, dead sea scrolls, B-Hebrew scholars, etc. I would be so bold as to suggest Ginsburg knew quite a bit more than you. Just a feeling I get.

So the issue is that you don't understand how Yeh became Yah, or Yehovah can be contracted to be Yah, 52 times in the KJV?

Well, as was explained, the Name was being protected by those entrusted with keeping the Scriptures. It was well used in Temple times and by the Jews themselves. If the contracted form of Jehovah was inserted --aside from it may just as easily have been written as such in the originals, but, to some it may have made sense to protect it's wrong use by doing a contraction, just as they contracted some of the theophoric names. The thing is, we still see both versions in the Scriptures, just as we see the contracted and not contracted theophoric names. It's not all been hidden away. No big mystery about it. I personally believe that it was not changed but rather, it is what God intended it to be.

One could easily see that Yehovah could be contracted down to Yah by removing 'ehov'.

Now you want proof that Yah or Jah and Jehovah are interchangeable, and Yah/Jah is the contraction of Jehovah?

Keeping in mind that 3050 is Yah and 3068 is Yehovah
3050 > yhh
יהּ
yâhh transliterated and phonetic spelling yaw

3050 or the contracted form was used 52 times in KJV
only once as Jah > in Psalm 68:4
one time as vehement in Song of Solomon 8:6
the rest -49 times -- it appears to be translated into English as Lord. Of that, only four of those times are found anywhere other than the Psalms. The other times were in Isaiah.

In other words, the Psalms or songs used the contracted Hebrew form for 47 of the 52 times. The use almost appears related to what worked for singing the songs. The Levites of the sons of Kohathites and sons of Korah were given responsibility according to 2 Chronicles 20:19, to sing the songs or hymns of worship and praise of God. David brought in the worship in song, so we can assume, since he wrote a majority of the psalms, it was approved by God. As most would understand, rhythm is necessary in being able to sing something and words, syllables and pauses have to be part of that rhythm. For the contraction to be used mainly in the songs, suggests a plausible reason for it's use.

And please notice that interchangeableness of Jah/Yah the contraction with Jehovah, and notice the various Messianic prophecies fulfilled in Christ in these verses.

For example:


Psa 113:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise, O ye servants of the LORD, praise the name of the LORD.
Psa 113:2 Blessed be the name of the LORD from this time forth and for evermore.
Psa 113:3 From the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same the LORD'S name is to be praised.
Psa 113:4 The LORD is high above all nations, and his glory above the heavens.
Psa 113:5 Who is like unto the LORD our God, who dwelleth on high,

Psa 113:1 PraiseH1984 ye the
LORD. H3050 Praise,H1984 O ye servants H5650 of the LORD,H3068 praiseH1984 (H853) the nameH8034 of the LORD.H3068
Psa 113:2 BlessedH1288 beH1961 the nameH8034 of the
LORD.H3068 from this time forthH4480 H6258 and for evermore.H5704 H5769
Psa 113:3 From the risingH4480 H4217 of the sunH8121 untoH5704 the going downH3996 of the same the
LORD'S.H3068 nameH8034 is to be praised.H1984
Psa 113:4 The
LORD.H3068 is highH7311 aboveH5921 allH3605 nations,H1471 and his gloryH3519 aboveH5921 the heavens.H8064
Psa 113:5 WhoH4310 is like unto the
LORD.H3068 our God,H430 who dwellethH3427 on high,H1361

Psa 68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.

Psa 68:18 Thou hast ascendedH5927 on high,H4791 thou hast led captivity captive:H7617 H7628 thou hast receivedH3947 giftsH4979 for men;H120 yea, for the rebelliousH5637 also,H637 that the
LORDH3050 GodH430 might dwellH7931 among them.

Psa 146:10 The LORD shall reign for ever, even thy God, O Zion, unto all generations. Praise ye the LORD.

Psa 146:10 The
LORD H3068 shall reignH4427 for ever,H5769 even thy God,H430 O Zion,H6726 unto all generations.H1755 H1755 PraiseH1984 ye the LORDH3050

Psa 118:5 I called upon the LORD in distress: the LORD answered me, and set me in a large place.
Psa 118:6 The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me?

Psa 118:5 I called uponH7121 the
LORDH3050 inH4480 distress:H4712 the LORDH3050 answeredH6030 me, and set me in a large place.H4800
Psa 118:6 The
LORD H3068 is on my side; I will notH3808 fear:H3372 whatH4100 can manH120 doH6213 unto me? [/b]

Notice this contains another Messianic prophecy fulfilled in Christ, who is our salvation.


Psa 118:11 They compassed me about; yea, they compassed me about: but in the name of the LORD I will destroy them.
Psa 118:12 They compassed me about like bees; they are quenched as the fire of thorns: for in the name of the LORD I will destroy them.
Psa 118:13 Thou hast thrust sore at me that I might fall: but the LORD helped me.

Psa 118:11 They compassed me about;H5437 yea,H1571 they compassed me about:H5437 but in the nameH8034 of the
LORD H3068 I will destroyH4135 them.
Psa 118:12 They compassed me aboutH5437 like bees;H1682 they are quenchedH1846 as the fireH784 of thorns:H6975 for in the nameH8034 of the
LORD H3068 I will destroyH4135 them.
Psa 118:13 Thou hast thrust soreH1760 H1760 at me that I might fall:H5307 but the
LORD H3068 helpedH5826 me.

Psa 118:14 The LORD is my strength and song, and is become my salvation.
Psa 118:15 The voice of rejoicing and salvation is in the tabernacles of the righteous: the right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly.
Psa 118:16 The right hand of the LORD is exalted: the right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly.

Psa 118:14 The
LORDH3050 is my strengthH5797 and song,H2176 and is becomeH1961 my salvation.H3444
Psa 118:15 The voiceH6963 of rejoicingH7440 and salvationH3444 is in the tabernaclesH168 of the righteous:H6662 the right handH3225 of the
LORD H3068 doethH6213 valiantly.H2428
Psa 118:16 The right handH3225 of the
LORD H3068 is exalted:H7311 the right handH3225 of the LORD H3068 doethH6213 valiantly.H2428

Psa 118:17 I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the LORD.
Psa 118:18 The LORD hath chastened me sore: but he hath not given me over unto death.
Psa 118:19 Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, and I will praise the LORD:
Psa 118:20 This gate of the LORD, into which the righteous shall enter.


Psa 118:17 I shall notH3808 die,H4191 butH3588 live,H2421 and declareH5608 the worksH4639 of the
LORDH3050
Psa 118:18 The
LORDH3050 hath chastened me sore:H3256 H3256 but he hath notH3808 given me overH5414 unto death.H4194
Psa 118:19 OpenH6605 to me the gatesH8179 of righteousness:H6664 I will goH935 into them, and I will praiseH3034 the
LORDH3050
Psa 118:20 ThisH2088 gateH8179 of the
LORD H3068 into which the righteousH6662 shall enter.H935

Psa 118:21 I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation.
Psa 118:22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
Psa 118:23 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
Psa 118:24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.


Psa 118:21 I will praiseH3034 thee: forH3588 thou hast heardH6030 me, and art becomeH1961 my salvation.H3444
Psa 118:22 The stoneH68 which the buildersH1129 refusedH3988 is becomeH1961 the headH7218 stone of the corner.H6438
Psa 118:23 ThisH2063 isH1961 the
LORD'S H3068 doing;H4480 H854 itH1931 is marvellousH6381 in our eyes.H5869
Psa 118:24 ThisH2088 is the dayH3117 which the
LORD H3068 hath made;H6213 we will rejoiceH1523 and be gladH8055 in it.

Psa 118:25 Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
Psa 118:26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.
Psa 118:27 God is the LORD, which hath shewed us light: bind the sacrifice with cords, even unto the horns of the altar.
Psa 118:28 Thou art my God, and I will praise thee: thou art my God, I will exalt thee.
Psa 118:29 O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Psa 118:25 SaveH3467 now,H4994 I beseechH577 thee, O
LORD H3068 O LORD H3068 I beseechH577 thee, send nowH4994 prosperity.H6743
Psa 118:26 BlessedH1288 be he that comethH935 in the nameH8034 of the
LORD H3068 we have blessedH1288 you out of the houseH4480 H1004 of the LORD H3068
Psa 118:27 GodH410 is the
LORD H3068 which hath shewed us light:H215 bindH631 the sacrificeH2282 with cords,H5688 even untoH5704 the hornsH7161 of the altar.H4196
Psa 118:28 ThouH859 art my God,H410 and I will praiseH3034 thee: thou art my God,H430 I will exaltH7311 thee.
Psa 118:29 O give thanksH3034 unto the
LORD H3068 forH3588 he is good:H2896 forH3588 his mercyH2617 endureth for ever.H5769

Isa 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

Isa 12:2 Behold,H2009
GodH410 is my salvation;H3444 I will trust,H982 and notH3808 be afraid:H6342 forH3588 the LORDH3050 JEHOVAHH3068 is my strengthH5797 and my song;H2176 he also is becomeH1961 my salvation.H3444

God >H410
אל
'êl
BDB Definition:
1) god, god-like one, mighty one
1a) mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
1b) angels
1c) god, false god, (demons, imaginations)
1d) God, the one true God, Jehovah
2) mighty things in nature
3) strength, power
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: shortened from H352
Same Word by TWOT Number: 93a

my salvation.H3444
H3444
ישׁוּעה
yeshû‛âh

BDB Definition:
1) salvation, deliverance
1a) welfare, prosperity
1b) deliverance
1c) salvation (by God)
1d) victory


Isa 26:4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:

Isa 26:4 TrustH982 ye in the
LORD H3068 for ever:H5704 H5703 forH3588 in the LORDH3050 JEHOVAHH3068 is everlastingH5769 strength:H6697

Isa 38:11 I said, I shall not see the LORD, even the LORD, in the land of the living: I shall behold man no more with the inhabitants of the world.

Isa 38:11 I said,H559 I shall notH3808 seeH7200 the
LORDH3050 even the LORDH3050 in the landH776 of the living:H2416 I shall beholdH5027 manH120 noH3808 moreH5750 withH5973 the inhabitantsH3427 of the world.H2309

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-28-2011, 06:25 AM
Post: #102
RE: What's the True Name of God?
Shalom Vic,

Thanks for responding I’ve come to the site for the past day or two but I have had no more than 10 minutes at a time to view all the comments you left ( including yours Rose).

I’ll make this quick. I don’t know what you believe my agenda is, but as previously stated if I’m wrong I have no problem being a humble person and accepting that. So if I’m asking you a question(s) trust and believe it’s not with a hidden agenda, and it really is to seek understanding from you.

As far as some of the teachers you mentioned. Some of them are in the list you’ve provided, but that’s not here or there. There are others that I will provide sooner than later if I have time to respond.
--
I have another question for you because I want to make sure I’m following you correctly with no assumptions added.
1) You’re saying that the Masoretic Text shows that the correct spelling of the name is Yehovah through its vowel pointing system?
If I understand you fully this is where you’re getting the root of your information from along with other sources such as Strong’s concordance and Dead Sea scrolls indirectly to support it. I see that you are imfamous for extended responses, but a simple yes or no followed with the extended answer would be fine. And if you could can you please give me the way you say spell the name.

I have to ask you questions over and over again because you respond with so many colors in your comments. It makes it difficult to see who is talking about what with all the unnecessary colors. I’m more interested in what you have to say than the definition of a word so I try to focus in on your words, which is nearly impossible to do with through the colors.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-28-2011, 10:27 AM
Post: #103
RE: What's the True Name of God?
(04-28-2011 06:25 AM)NearYah Wrote:  Shalom Vic,

Thanks for responding I’ve come to the site for the past day or two but I have had no more than 10 minutes at a time to view all the comments you left ( including yours Rose).

I’ll make this quick. I don’t know what you believe my agenda is, but as previously stated if I’m wrong I have no problem being a humble person and accepting that. So if I’m asking you a question(s) trust and believe it’s not with a hidden agenda, and it really is to seek understanding from you.

As far as some of the teachers you mentioned. Some of them are in the list you’ve provided, but that’s not here or there. There are others that I will provide sooner than later if I have time to respond.
--
I have another question for you because I want to make sure I’m following you correctly with no assumptions added.
1) You’re saying that the Masoretic Text shows that the correct spelling of the name is Yehovah through its vowel pointing system?
If I understand you fully this is where you’re getting the root of your information from along with other sources such as Strong’s concordance and Dead Sea scrolls indirectly to support it. I see that you are imfamous for extended responses, but a simple yes or no followed with the extended answer would be fine. And if you could can you please give me the way you say spell the name.

I have to ask you questions over and over again because you respond with so many colors in your comments. It makes it difficult to see who is talking about what with all the unnecessary colors. I’m more interested in what you have to say than the definition of a word so I try to focus in on your words, which is nearly impossible to do with through the colors.

Ne'aryah, don't presume what you don't know. And please don't attempt to dictate or determine how or how much I 'have your permission' to respond with. Or anyone else.

As far as the color coding, yes I can see that would be a problem for you to read and absorb since the purple is the Scriptures, sourcing Strong's or BDB is navy, and my comments are light blue. One wouldn't want to take time to study them as presented would you? The issue isn't what I am presenting factually and Scripturally. The issue is you do end runs around all facts, all scripture, all answers to your questions and avoid questions put to you and cannot seem capable of responding directly to that information. Instead you build straw men. Go back and read the thread. After that maybe actually read and think about the information. Because right now, this is going nowhere. And the fact you get your knowledge from any of those 'teachers' and I use that word lightly, shows total lack of understanding and discernment. People cannot teach what they do not know. People can make up all manner of junk, but that doesn't make it truth. Or solid scholarship.

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-28-2011, 11:35 AM
Post: #104
RE: What's the True Name of God?
Soooo, basically your not answering the question?
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-28-2011, 01:15 PM
Post: #105
RE: What's the True Name of God?
(04-28-2011 11:35 AM)NearYah Wrote:  Soooo, basically your not answering the question?

Ne'aryah, you have ignored all the information I have given you. There is much more that could be said. But to no end. You cannot answer anything I have given you. Sooo, basically you are not answering the information or the Scriptures. Nice try though, to try to do yet another end run around it all.

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-28-2011, 03:46 PM (This post was last modified: 04-28-2011 05:00 PM by Vic.)
Post: #106
RE: What's the True Name of God?
Shalom Vic,
Though you didn’t answer the question directly you did give me enough that I could go back and follow your words clearly. I still haven’t had a chance to re-read all of your post for a fifth time (I’m not joking). I think I follow what you’re saying.
So before I begin I would like to state the following based from scripture, as to why I feel this should not be taken as a definite from anyone’s perspective.
1Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city! She obeyed not the voice; she received not correction; she trusted not in the LORD; she drew not near to her God. Her princes within her are roaring lions; her judges are evening wolves; they gnaw not the bones till the morrow. Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have done violence to the law. The just LORD is in the midst thereof; he will not do iniquity: every morning doth he bring his judgment to light, he faileth not; but the unjust knoweth no shame. I have cut off the nations: their towers are desolate; I made their streets waste, that none passeth by: their cities are destroyed, so that there is no man, that there is none inhabitant. I said, Surely thou wilt fear me, thou wilt receive instruction; so their dwelling should not be cut off, howsoever I punished them: but they rose early, and corrupted all their doings. Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.

So why do I post? Because no good moreh is going to tell you that their way is the right way, much like you adamantly have done on these boards through using the name Yeshua as being acceptable, or Yehovah (if I’m understanding you) to be the correct form. It is literally impossible to be 100% sure of.
Now, what we can do as believers is do our best to figure out what is what, and why some say it Yahweh, Yehovah , Alahiym and others Elohim. With that in mind I will do my best to stick with the Strong’s since it seems to be your source of “go to” information. Then we can work our way backward starting with your last informative post. My last question that was asked to you was could you please explain how you get yah to yeh when using the reference number to strong’s 3050. Your response is the following.

(04-25-2011 07:10 PM)Vic Wrote:  Actually Nearyah, I don't have to prove anything beyond that scholarship, provable facts and Scripture. It is you that has failed to prove anything, other than present an opinion which you expect to be taken as gospel so to speak. Holman Christian Bible is now your proof of paleo hebrew being the actual hebrew aka the actual true scriptures or source for the name? It's based on the same sources as NIV, etc. Nestle Aland, Metzger, Wescott and Hort, etc manuscripts. And that is your research?

Since you asked a question that deserves an answer here it is. No, its not my research I use this bible, a Jewish bible, Aramaic bible, Paleo Hebrew, Dead Sea Scrolls by Martin Abegg, and Nehima Gordon who is a Kariate Jew an almost associate (not friend) that I’ve spoken with 3 to 4 times, along with some of the sources you mention created by people such as J. Benner. These are only the sources that I think you would be familiar with. In other words this is only the more popular list of names and tools that I feel the average American Western Christian uses (no offense).

Personally, I don’t see why or how this has any burden on the conversation because anyone of us could be wrong on the topic, as I’ve already given you through what Yahuah (God) said through scripture. The following line proceeds with your comments.

Quote: [color=#1E90FF]
I use Strong's, Thayer's, BDB and similar for presentation in the forum or my articles for readers. Higher Truth also sourced the codexes-and gave links to them, dead sea scrolls, B-Hebrew scholars, etc. I would be so bold as to suggest Ginsburg knew quite a bit more than you. Just a feeling I get.

I have a small problem with this, which will become more evident as the conversation goes beyond this post. I guess for now my question with the reference I provided before this post being
(Holman Christian bible)

Are the people you posted some how better? Are they more touched by the spirit, or is it more acceptable, because somehow you said so? Again, this means nothing when it comes down to it we need more. Are you aware that the sources you just mentioned have nothing to do with the original Hebrew in Paleo. I don’t know if you’ve actually read the Dead Sea scrolls but it does not have Yah or Yeh in it at all. The reason for it is because it was not written in the modern day Hebrew.

What does this mean?

I’ll do my best to explain. When Ginsburg tries to back his claims up by saying that his research is supported and it shows the name to be Yeh or whatever. He cannot be telling you the truth in the way “you assume”. What he can tell you is that the same base of the word is there in the Paleo. Meaning that the accuracy that he is referencing is not based on what you’re saying or taking from the Qumran. Another way to put it is like this…His accuracy is not detailed in the sense that it’s based on vowel pointing system by any group - his accuracy is more based on the basic form of words, which is very important. This means that what we are seeing as being accurate is simply the organic form of the word, not vowel pointing. We know this because the original Hebrew (paleo) had no vowel points.

If I’m wrong I’m sure you will correct me.


So this introduces us to why I ask what I did. Your response

Quote:
So the issue is that you don't understand how Yeh became Yah, or Yehovah can be contracted to be Yah, 52 times in the KJV?

Well, as was explained, the Name was being protected by those entrusted with keeping the Scriptures. It was well used in Temple times and by the Jews themselves. If the contracted form of Jehovah was inserted --aside from it may just as easily have been written as such in the originals, but, to some it may have made sense to protect it's wrong use by doing a contraction, just as they contracted some of the theophoric names. The thing is, we still see both versions in the Scriptures, just as we see the contracted and not contracted theophoric names. It's not all been hidden away. No big mystery about it. I personally believe that it was not changed but rather, it is what God intended it to be.

[b]One could easily see that Yehovah could be contracted down to Yah by removing 'ehov'.

Now you want proof that Yah or Jah and Jehovah are interchangeable, and Yah/Jah is the contraction of Jehovah?

Keeping in mind that 3050 is Yah and 3068 is Yehovah
3050 > yhh
יהּ
yâhh transliterated and phonetic spelling yaw


3050 or the contracted form was used 52 times in KJV
only once as Jah > in Psalm 68:4
one time as vehement in Song of Solomon 8:6
the rest -49 times -- it appears to be translated into English as Lord. Of that, only four of those times are found anywhere other than the Psalms. The other times were in Isaiah.

In other words, the Psalms or songs used the contracted Hebrew form for 47 of the 52 times. The use almost appears related to what worked for singing the songs. The Levites of the sons of Kohathites and sons of Korah were given responsibility according to 2 Chronicles 20:19, to sing the songs or hymns of worship and praise of God. David brought in the worship in song, so we can assume, since he wrote a majority of the psalms, it was approved by God. As most would understand, rhythm is necessary in being able to sing something and words, syllables and pauses have to be part of that rhythm. For the contraction to be used mainly in the songs, suggests a plausible reason for it's use.

And please notice that interchangeableness of Jah/Yah the contraction with Jehovah, and notice the various Messianic prophecies fulfilled in Christ in these verses.


I erased the many quotes of Psalms, and more that you gave because they all contain to the above point.

So if you remember I came into this conversation with one question. How did you get to yeh? In Paleo the root of the word is an ahh sound, right?

Well look at what you just told me through strong’s concordance

Quote:Keeping in mind that 3050 is Yah and 3068 is Yehovah
3050 > yhh
יהּ
yâhh transliterated and phonetic spelling yaw

My comprehension tells me that the yah is more sounding like yahh which is what the “B” for Yehovah comes from.

I’m not sure if you agree, but this is starting to press the button on what I’m saying…
Phonetic means spelling a word the way it sounds. So if Strong’s is telling you that the root word for the word is Yah or phonetically spelled yahh, it is literally impossible to leap over and make a Yeh phonetic sound that sounds like Yeh, unless you use something.

At this point I guess it’s a good to mention the fact that Strong’s must have used a vowel pointing system to get to the “ehh” not ‘ahh’ sound. And attached Yah to Yeh. Though words can change or be interchangeable, I find that pretty difficult to do with Paleo because of how it is created through the root word form or sound of the first three letters. I will admit the idea of this seems very possible because we do it in modern times with our language, but our language is not Hebrew, more importantly it is not ancient Hebrew. So then you wrote the following

[/quote]
God >H410
אל
'êl
BDB Definition:
1) god, god-like one, mighty one
1a) mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
1b) angels
1c) god, false god, (demons, imaginations)
1d) God, the one true God, Jehovah
[/quote]

Again, we’re dealing with root words, and then building from there. But when I was in my ignorance I looked up the term hovah in Strongs because most names in the Paleo spell out something. So starting with the Greek source (Strong’s) I looked “hovah” up.

Strongs # 1943

1942 havvah hav-vaw' from 1933 (in the sense of eagerly coveting and rushing upon; by implication, of falling); desire; also ruin:--calamity, iniquity, mischief, mischievous (thing), naughtiness, naughty, noisome, perverse thing, substance, very wickedness.

1943 hovah ho-vaw' another form for 1942; ruin:--mischief.

We haven’t even gotten to the reason as to why I choose yah and no way shape or form would ever attach “hovah” to his name. This is all coming from a greek source. What do I mean greek source.

Strong’s is only good for the King James Version for starters, which is why most scholars use it. The King James Bible has been the better known issued bible and Sir James made good sense and cents ( get my drift) to create his wording system to assist those who purchased the King James version.

The issue with this is that it was created from the Masoretic text. I’m not one to claim that they did anything because there is evidence outside of them that shows us more use of the name and what it could be, but in reflection of what we are told through Zeph 3:9, it’s still not wise to say we are 100% sure its this way because some idiot said so, which we all are in comparison to Yahuah’s (God) wisdom.

The Encyclopedia Britannica, Encylopedia Americana, The Jewish Encyclopedia, The Encyclopedia Judaica, Babylonian Talmud, and Flavius Josephus Against Apion, and the Life of Josephus all say that their name is wrong and a fraud. So if Ginsburg claims that the use of the name is now used among all. Why don’t they use it at the Day of Atonement at the wall? Granted this is getting personal and you can’t prove me wrong, but I don’t mind sharing. I have a friend that keeps Yahuah (God’s) feast and he was able to make it back home for the Day of Atonement. He says that the name he heard whispered was Yahweh not Yehovah. I’m not even trying to say you spell it that way, nonetheless, I can see how that phonetic spelling could work based on the 3 letters in the root of the word yah, not yeh.

So looking at the word hovah (Strongs # 1943) does that really sound like we can squeeze salvation out of that, it seems like if we can, than we would be making Yahuah (God) sadistic, but again these are just my opinions? I have more but I’m at work, by no means did I want you to think I was holding out on you.

Purpose of the delayed response

[Moderation note per forum rules, although post left intact. You have an issue with me, Ne'aryah, you take it private. Here's the forum rules, please read them. http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=2 >> http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=228 Thank you. Vic]

For the record I’m asking you politely to tone your tone down with the personal unneeded insults and horrible assumptions. It took me a moment to figure out what a HR is because as I have explained time and time again with many here already ( I hate titles). I’m not sure what faith you are, but as I discussed with Mary and Rose the root of mine is love, it is to be the means that we communicate even to the children or hard-hearted. If you can’t present yourself in that manner than you can continue to make this site what is without the participation of those like myself, which seek understanding through the spirit. I read each of your comments and not one of them failed to have a negative remark. So that is what the Wow was for it was more so toward your hostility and arrogance. The reason why I’ve read your post several times before responding is to make sure my spirit didn’t detect any hidden intent through your words. So I waited till today when I would have time to explain myself fully. So no I’m not telling you how to write, I’m calling out the brotherly love that is suppose to be apart of your walk as a believer not, as a dictator of a computerized site. The decision is up to you considering your response I may not respond at all. So I say to you in advance. Yah Bless you



Shalom!
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-28-2011, 06:16 PM (This post was last modified: 04-28-2011 06:18 PM by Mary.)
Post: #107
RE: What's the True Name of God?
"For the record I’m asking you politely to tone your tone down with the personal unneeded insults and horrible assumptions. It took me a moment to figure out what a HR is because as I have explained time and time again with many here already ( I hate titles). I’m not sure what faith you are, but as I discussed with Mary and Rose the root of mine is love, it is to be the means that we communicate even to the children or hard-hearted. If you can’t present yourself in that manner than you can continue to make this site what is without the participation of those like myself, which seek understanding through the spirit. I read each of your comments and not one of them failed to have a negative remark. So that is what the Wow was for it was more so toward your hostility and arrogance. The reason why I’ve read your post several times before responding is to make sure my spirit didn’t detect any hidden intent through your words. So I waited till today when I would have time to explain myself fully. So no I’m not telling you how to write, I’m calling out the brotherly love that is suppose to be apart of your walk as a believer not, as a dictator of a computerized site. The decision is up to you considering your response I may not respond at all. So I say to you in advance. Yah Bless you "


I'm sorry if you feel unloved and that love has not been the response you had hoped to get.I know, and acknowledge that I have responded with a tone of annoyance to you, but I feel that has matched your arrogance, so it would at this point be hypocritical to apologise. Take a look at some of Jesus's responses to his disciples: He loved them, but did express His annoyance at times.

I know that this aim of this thread is to reveal the gnostic and mystical false teaching of seeking out and attempting to use the "true and sacred" name of God. Through the thread we see the futility of this as so many people have different ideas. We are writing in English - out of respect to God, and to the people using the thread, so let us continue to use these Titles, for that is what they are. God, the Father, the Son, The Holy Spirit, Jesus, Jesus Christ. (but as you say you "hate titles).

Ne'arYah, not only do you use another language for these titles, but you also throw in words at the reader (which I assume are name calling) in another language. That is unloving and arrogant, let's call a spade a spade.

Phillipians 4:23 "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-29-2011, 03:50 PM (This post was last modified: 04-29-2011 03:54 PM by Ne'arYah.)
Post: #108
RE: What's the True Name of God?
Shalom Mary,

Let me say this if you look up the term Jesus in your strongs concordance and see where it came from it will lead you to the Greek pronunciation Iēsous. Some say that this name actually deviates from a greek god ( no Im not saying that). Given the fact that it was around and related to a god before Jesus came to be what you call him. I have a very big problem with the name Jesus because it wasn’t even in the 1611 King James. That name has only been attached to the one we call Jesus for the last 400 years or so, and he was here much longer than that. So the names you see in my writings have been Yahushua (Jesus) Yahusha (Jesus), and Yah (God) Yahweh (God), or Yahuah (God). None of those terms are name calling at anyone. The only other name I have mentioned here that is Hebrew is Ruach hakodesh, which means (holy Spirit) if any of that comes across offensive, my apologies. Since reading your post about this in another thread I have made every effort to include the English name with the Hebrew for your understanding personally. I personally tried calling him Jesus and God in isolation and I felt funny. Again, sorry

I think I’m taking a break from you all because it seems like I’m the new girl in class, that everyone want to dislike and for no reason. I have offered all of you nothing, but truth with no negativity (intended), yet every view I have standing opposite of the majority comes across that way.

Shalom to you all and Yahuah (God) bless you

Shabbat Shalom!
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-29-2011, 04:49 PM (This post was last modified: 04-29-2011 04:50 PM by Rose of Shushan.)
Post: #109
RE: What's the True Name of God?
Quote:The only other name I have mentioned here that is Hebrew is Ruach hakodesh, which means (holy Spirit) if any of that comes across offensive, my apologies. Since reading your post about this in another thread I have made every effort to include the English name with the Hebrew for your understanding personally. I personally tried calling him Jesus and God in isolation and I felt funny. Again, sorry

Sorry to butt in your convo with Mary but since it concerns readers also I just wanted to chip in with something.
We cannot assume that the readership has knowledge of hebrew and thus some words may be confusing to readers.When Mary wrote her post using a langauge that I was unfamiliar with it was hard to know what she meant.In the same way, when you include hebrew words readers are not going to understand what you mean.Its a matter of respect to others I think and if the aim of your posts are to converse with other believers on matters of the faith, wouldn't it be a good idea to use words which are going to be understood?
Seeing as you are on this subject I also want to comment that I have found it odd that at times you call Jesus Yahusha and others Yahushua.Does the vav suddenly disappear at times? And if you are so obsessed over the name issue doesn't it bother you that sometimes you seem to lose that vav?



Quote:Let me say this if you look up the term Jesus in your strongs concordance and see where it came from it will lead you to the Greek pronunciation Iēsous.

There is nothing wrong with the greek pronounciation of Jesus.If you hav a problem with the J as many in HR tend to,then you're also going to have a problem with the name of Joshua, Josiah,Jonathan etc etc..not sure what the big issue is.The J is a pictorial representation of the y' sound or ie sound or ll sound depending on what language you are speaking.


Quote:I think I’m taking a break from you all because it seems like I’m the new girl in class, that everyone want to dislike and for no reason. I have offered all of you nothing, but truth with no negativity (intended), yet every view I have standing opposite of the majority comes across that way.

Oh man
I spend half my day replying to your posts and you think that we don't like you :Th_emotionsshrug
If I didn't care about you I really wouldn't have spent all day replying to you when I really have other things I should have been doing.It's not a case of not liking you or anything.If I disagree with someone it doesn't mean that I don't like the person .I just happen to disagree with whatever it is but that has nothing to do with them personally.This is a discussion forum and of course none of us are going to agree on things but we can just discuss and agree to disagree right?
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-29-2011, 09:48 PM
Post: #110
RE: What's the True Name of God?
(04-28-2011 03:46 PM)NearYah Wrote:  Shalom Vic,
Though you didn’t answer the question directly you did give me enough that I could go back and follow your words clearly. I still haven’t had a chance to re-read all of your post for a fifth time (I’m not joking). I think I follow what you’re saying.
So before I begin I would like to state the following based from scripture, as to why I feel this should not be taken as a definite from anyone’s perspective.
1Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city! She obeyed not the voice; she received not correction; she trusted not in the LORD; she drew not near to her God. Her princes within her are roaring lions; her judges are evening wolves; they gnaw not the bones till the morrow. Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have done violence to the law. The just LORD is in the midst thereof; he will not do iniquity: every morning doth he bring his judgment to light, he faileth not; but the unjust knoweth no shame. I have cut off the nations: their towers are desolate; I made their streets waste, that none passeth by: their cities are destroyed, so that there is no man, that there is none inhabitant. I said, Surely thou wilt fear me, thou wilt receive instruction; so their dwelling should not be cut off, howsoever I punished them: but they rose early, and corrupted all their doings. Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.

So why do I post? Because no good moreh is going to tell you that their way is the right way, much like you adamantly have done on these boards through using the name Yeshua as being acceptable, or Yehovah (if I’m understanding you) to be the correct form. It is literally impossible to be 100% sure of.
Now, what we can do as believers is do our best to figure out what is what, and why some say it Yahweh, Yehovah , Alahiym and others Elohim. With that in mind I will do my best to stick with the Strong’s since it seems to be your source of “go to” information. Then we can work our way backward starting with your last informative post. My last question that was asked to you was could you please explain how you get yah to yeh when using the reference number to strong’s 3050. Your response is the following.

I erased the many quotes of Psalms, and more that you gave because they all contain to the above point.

So if you remember I came into this conversation with one question. How did you get to yeh? In Paleo the root of the word is an ahh sound, right? ....

[Moderation note per forum rules, although post left intact. You have an issue with me, Ne'aryah, you take it private. Here's the forum rules, please read them. http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=2 >> http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=228 Thank you. Vic]

For the record I’m asking you politely to tone your tone down with the personal unneeded insults and horrible assumptions. It took me a moment to figure out what a HR is because as I have explained time and time again with many here already ( I hate titles). I’m not sure what faith you are, but as I discussed with Mary and Rose the root of mine is love, it is to be the means that we communicate even to the children or hard-hearted. If you can’t present yourself in that manner than you can continue to make this site what is without the participation of those like myself, which seek understanding through the spirit. I read each of your comments and not one of them failed to have a negative remark. So that is what the Wow was for it was more so toward your hostility and arrogance. The reason why I’ve read your post several times before responding is to make sure my spirit didn’t detect any hidden intent through your words. So I waited till today when I would have time to explain myself fully. So no I’m not telling you how to write, I’m calling out the brotherly love that is suppose to be apart of your walk as a believer not, as a dictator of a computerized site. The decision is up to you considering your response I may not respond at all. So I say to you in advance. Yah Bless you

Shalom!


Nearyah, you have no idea, obviously, how much time and patience answering you correctly has taken--with the right attitude. Starting with allowing you to keep the nic you have which violates forum rules. Which states, since you didn't bother to read them or perhaps feel you are somewhat above them, that nics are to be in clear understandable english. http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=777 If someone does not choose to follow that rule they are given opportunity normally to provide a replacement and if they refuse their membership is terminated.

I allowed you to keep your nic for clear reasons. You have lived up to those reasons. Further, I have allowed the continual sniping, attempts at provoking myself and other members, attempts to insult, your arrogance and put downs, and the dissemination of your teachings, which in the rules is called spamming the forum with your beliefs. The reason we know you were not just here to discuss, is because you have said you wanted to teach us, and because of the manner of what and how you present your doctrine. For example "I’m teaching you today about Yah"

You also contradict yourself regularly, by saying one must know the 'true name' for example and can research it and find it but then say no one can be 100% sure. etc. Except you proclaim the names you use to be the true one and all others false.

You claim you are humble[repeatedly] and can accept correction and then turn around and totally dismiss Scriptures, facts, and language science information. Instead you believe opinion is what we should be 'logically' applying. So opinion trumps the Scriptures and provable facts. Opinion, conjecture, guesses, pseudo-scholarship trumps actual truth. You also attempt to control and manipulate the discussion by avoiding the Scriptures and factual presentation by making it appear it would be some horrible dialogue or not worth responding to, to actually address the things you obviously cannot refute based on your beliefs.

Further, just as an aside, anyone who claims and proclaims themselves humble is not. Anyone knows that. The very moment you think you are humble you have just proven you are not.

Your association with Jeff Benner > please see the thread > http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.p...230#pid230

You said you sourced Karaite Nehemiah Gordon, originally on tour with Michael Rood with their sham called scholarship, for 'Raiders of the Lost Book > http://www.seekgod.ca/roodnewsflash.htm ;

titled > Raiders of the Lost Book Equals Raiders of Nothing of Value :
Michael Rood of A Rood Awakening and Nehemia Gordon
US Speaking Tour January 2005

And > http://www.seekgod.ca/roodnewsflash2.htm > The Creator's Calendar and the Restoration of All Things And
Raiders of the Lost Book: New Discoveries in the Hebrew Text of Matthew

Please also see > http://www.seekgod.ca/htroodpagan.htm


Quote:These are only the sources that I think you would be familiar with. In other words this is only the more popular list of names and tools that I feel the average American Western Christian uses (no offense).

You should really do your homework. None of the posters in dialogue with you, other than one, is American. You should have just used the normal slur of "our western gentile mind" being incapable of knowing other than the things and people you mentioned. You would be surprised ---I am more than sure---of what we do know. and about who..

Further, the Jewish bible you use? would that be Stern's Complete Jewish Bible? Please do read this article > http://www.seekgod.ca/hr/hrfaqs9a1.htm#cjb
Myth. David Stern's Complete Jewish Bible (CJB), is the best Bible to use

And your Paleo Hebrew---from Jeff Benner primarily? Oh well....

So now you have made the statement, as invariably comes from those holding your beliefs and opinions, you play the victim and walk away. Your claim you are being abused and attacked, when what is done is fully evaluation and refutation on your opinions, conjecture and pseudo scholarship. We are doing what we are called to do and that is weigh to the Word of God and prove all things. Your spirit is a little off in discerning truth, about us, our attitudes---and mine in particular, as well as Rose's. It is fully about proving all things and refuting and reproving according to the Word of God.You say you have only offered us all truth and we all reject it---which means you believe we are all in error and you stand alone against such as us, who then must be disseminating error. Regardless that we point people to Christ and the Word of God as standard for doctrine while you offer opinion and want all to set aside the Scriptures.


Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.


Quote:I personally tried calling him Jesus and God in isolation and I felt funny. Again, sorry

It would not be a surprise that you felt 'funny' if you do not know Him. Because regardless of what you contradict yourself on, saying on the one hand you know the true name but, also, no one can be 100% sure, you reject the etymology of the Name of Jesus and the person, if you cannot say His Name in English.

I would ask if you ever accepted Jesus as your Savior and Lord before you got into all this name, paleo and "ben yisrael' stuff [while claiming you don't use titles], but I would suggest you would not want to admit that. Or if you did, you would reject it as not being based on Truth. You don't even want to use the true Hebrew of Yeshua....which is really sad. I can't help but think of these verses. Keeping in mind that the NT was written in Koine Greek, not Hebrew and translating and transliterating the name of Jesus took place so that all could say His Name in what they could understand in their own languages.


1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)