The Mute Christian

[Vic]

(01-31-2011 07:23 PM)heb13-13 Wrote:  If truth is to be recognized then I hope I see it.

I have read from many different kinds of authors. Calvinists, Armenians, Pentecostals, Bible Church, Cessationists and Dispensationalists and found some truth.

I even find truth on SeekGod from time to time.

>>>>>>>> I assume you are trying to be amusing here Rick?>>>>>>

The very term MUTE means to remain silent. It's a misnomer in the title because it's a contradiction to then go into all one says as Brooks does, along with the varied definitions and lists about what Christians are to put up with, or complain about or not and allow for those responses in certain ways, as Brooks determines what is acceptable.

THE question as always, does what he preaches stand the test of Scripture? Does he add to or take away from any Scripture? Does he give his opinion and interpretation as being equal to Scripture? That's the bottom line for anything we read or write.

Personally, there's something about his writing and lists that reminds me of Richard Foster. I didn't spend a lot of time reading his stuff for that reason. I tend to go with that initial analysis for what it's worth. I don't have the time to go deeper with it, but that was my initial feeling about it.

[Mary]

I have finally finished the whole book. As it turns out, God led me to this book at a time of more trouble coming on me and my family, and I am thankful for that.

Here is what I think of the book: it is an extensive bible study on the subject of suffering and the Christian response to it. Every point he makes, he refers to at least one, but usually more verses from scripture, so it is a useful resource for a list of bible verses on the subject. He urges the reader to read the verses for himself and not just accept his comments on the verse. Of course he gives his opinion/understanding, as any of us would do, and do consistently on this website.

The book is old, so the language is archaic and we should be aware that over time, some meanings have subtly changed and some words are no longer politically correct. He also is well educated in "the Classics" so some of what he says is meaningless to us less educated modern folk. He is guilty of waffling at times. I don't know if he was a Puritan or not - he doesn't mention America, and speaks to England as a nation of individuals guilty of "murmuring" against God.

I have only read one book by Foster, about 13 or 14 years ago, I don't remember it well, just that I thought it was odd and demanding, so works orientated. I did not get that from this book by Brooks.

What I did get was affirmation of what I know from His Word: that He is with me in all by troubles (and joys) and I can trust Him in all things.

I think Brooks addresses what Sheep provided in that article about "feelianity".

A few weeks ago my son provided a visible and audible demonstration of Brook's point:
I had asked him to pick up all his things off the floor in his room so I could clean. He persistently disobeyed me, and added some loud complaining to me about my unfairness and meanness. This resulted in some time out, during which he cried loudly in great distress. I went in and told him the situation for him would worsen unless he kept quiet and thought hard. He decided to keep quiet, and a little while later came to me, apologised, hugged and then got on with the job which he did very well. Once his room was cleaned he was able to set up his cubby again, better than before.

Psalm 37: 7-8
Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.

The whole Psalm is enlightening, but these verses speak clearly - we do not need to fret, if we feel angry, we should stop the anger and choose to accept his rest and trust in Him, waiting patiently for Him.

Throughout reading the book, I thought of the story of Jesus and the disciples in the boat, with Jesus sleeping while the boat was storm tossed. They woke him and asked His help. He didn't say, it's Ok I'm with you, I'll calm the storm, I'll save you - He said "oh ye of little faith".

[Mary]

Since the trouble that has come on me is going to result in me having to spend some time in bedrest or recline, I thought that I would provide, with no comments or opinions, the Scriptures that Brooks provides. It's a big job, but I shall give it a go!

Job 5 vs 7
Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward.

Judges 14 9(b) - 10
....there was a swarm of bees and honey in the carcase of the lion.
And he took thereof in his hands, and went on eating, and came to his father and mother, and he gave them, and they did eat: but he told not them that he had taken the honey out of the carcase of the lion.

Psalm 66 vs 16

Come and hear, all ye that fear God, and I will declare what he hath done for my soul.

Zechariah 1 vs 6

But my words and my statutes, which I commanded my servants the prophets, did they not take hold of your fathers? and they returned and said, Like as the LORD of hosts thought to do unto us, according to our ways, and according to our doings, so hath he dealt with us.

Isaiah 28 vs 25

When he hath made plain the face thereof, doth he not cast abroad the fitches, and scatter the cummin, and cast in the principal wheat and the appointed barley and rie in their place?

Romans 15 vs 21

But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.

1 Cor 1 vs 25 -29

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Zechariah 4 vs 10

For who hath despised the day of small things?

1 Samuel 22 vs 1-3
David therefore departed thence, and escaped to the cave Adullam: and when his brethren and all his father's house heard it, they went down thither to him.
And every one that was in distress, and every one that was in debt, and every one that was discontented, gathered themselves unto him; and he became a captain over them: and there were with him about four hundred men.
And David went thence to Mizpeh of Moab: and he said unto the king of Moab, Let my father and my mother, I pray thee, come forth, and be with you, till I know what God will do for me.

1 Thess 1: 7-8

So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.
For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.

1 Cor 9: 1-2

Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?
If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.

Luke 5 vs 5

And Simon answering said unto him, Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing: nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net.

[Mary]

1 Cor 3 : 6-7
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Micah 6 vs 14

Thou shalt eat, but not be satisfied; and thy casting down shall be in the midst of thee; and thou shalt take hold, but shalt not deliver; and that which thou deliverest will I give up to the sword.

Haggai 1 vs 6
Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes.

Acts 17 vs 11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

John 6:16,17
Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Psalm 119: 98 -100
Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me.
I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.
I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.

John 4:7
There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.

2 Cor 12 vs 15
And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you; though the more
abundantly I love you, the less I be loved.

2 Cor 3 vs 6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

all these verses come from the introduction where he tells why he is writing on the subject of suffering, and he asks readers to test it against the Word, think about it and pray.

[Mary]

I was just thinking this morning of saying something to my husband, which on reflection I knew would be hurtful. We have been together for 30 years, and in this time I have learned that some things are better left unsaid or given a lot of thought and prayer about before being said in a careful way.

I realised that this is something I have learned out of love for my husband and also respect for myself, and I realised that I have learned the same thing applies to my relationship with God. So there are times when I choose to be mute and I try when I speak to be careful and thoughtful.

Phillippians Chapter 4.

Ephesians 3:16

[sheep wrecked]

(02-07-2011 06:55 PM)Mary Wrote:  I was just thinking this morning of saying something to my husband, which on reflection I knew would be hurtful. We have been together for 30 years, and in this time I have learned that some things are better left unsaid or given a lot of thought and prayer about before being said in a careful way.

I realised that this is something I have learned out of love for my husband and also respect for myself, and I realised that I have learned the same thing applies to my relationship with God. So there are times when I choose to be mute and I try when I speak to be careful and thoughtful.

Phillippians Chapter 4.

Ephesians 3:16

Don't you think God knows our thoughts? Knows everything about us, our heart, our reactions to what is happening? Jesus said that to think lust was to commit adultery. He also said that sin is birthed in the heart.

I don't really understand the "mute" thing. Mostly because I cannot find it in Scripture. None of are even capable of it. Our thoughts speak as loudly as our words and God hears every single one. Thinking that we have the ability to "be still" before God is like telling a brook to stop babbling


Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Back when I was in the Hebrew Roots Movement, I started to get swept up into kabbalah. I was told it was the "good kind" because I was studying Avi ben Mordechai's "Messiah 3" book which takes Christ and inserts Him as the "middle pillar" of the sefirotic tree.

When I first started reading the book, it drew me into the concept that God is so vast, so immeasurable, and "unapproachable light", so magnificent, infinite, Glorified compared to us as puny human beings. I was so overwrought with fear that I felt I could not pray, could not speak to God. That any attempt on my part to communicate with Him was shear folly on my part. I collapsed in pure misery and tears for days. I was inconsolable. At some point, in the deepest part of my soul, God stirred my response and my thinking that something was terribly wrong. I set the book down and refused to read any more. It was the worst time of my life, not knowing what I was supposed to do.

It was about that time that God send someone into my life and I began to see the occult nature of "all" kabbalahs and the truth of it. That was the very first thing that began to draw me out of Hebrew Roots. From that moment, I have never again feared to reach out to God no matter what I felt or how disturbed I was at what was happening to me and others in my life. There is nothing that can shake me from the kind of relationship with the Lord that I have. He is my ALL in ALL. He knows me like no one else. I can hide nothing from Him, not even my deepest thoughts or reactions to what I am going through and how I am reacting. And for that I praise His Name every day.




Psa 6:1 <To the chief Musician on Neginoth upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David.> O LORD, rebuke me not in thine anger, neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.
Psa 6:2 Have mercy upon me, O LORD; for I am weak: O LORD, heal me; for my bones are vexed.
Psa 6:3 My soul is also sore vexed: but thou, O LORD, how long?
Psa 6:4 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake.
Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Psa 6:6 I am weary with my groaning; all the night make I my bed to swim; I water my couch with my tears.
Psa 6:7 Mine eye is consumed because of grief; it waxeth old because of all mine enemies.
Psa 6:8 Depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity; for the LORD hath heard the voice of my weeping.
Psa 6:9 The LORD hath heard my supplication; the LORD will receive my prayer.
Psa 6:10 Let all mine enemies be ashamed and sore vexed: let them return and be ashamed suddenly.

H926 - vexed
בּהל
bâhal
BDB Definition:
1) to disturb, alarm, terrify, hurry, be disturbed, be anxious, be afraid, be hurried, be nervous
1a) (Niphal)
1a1) to be disturbed, dismayed, terrified, anxious
1a2) to be in haste, be hasty
1b) (Piel)
1b1) to make haste, act hastily, be hurried, be hastened
1b2) to dismay, terrify
1c) (Pual)
1c1) to hasten
1c2) hastened, hastily gained (participle)
1d) (Hiphil)
1d1) to hasten, hurry, make haste
1d2) to dismay, terrify

H3708 - grief
כּעשׂ / כּעס
ka‛as / ka‛aś
BDB Definition:
1) anger, vexation, provocation, grief
1a) vexation
1a1) of men
1a2) of God
1b) vexation, grief, frustration

[Mary]

(02-08-2011 10:54 AM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  

(02-07-2011 06:55 PM)Mary Wrote:  I was just thinking this morning of saying something to my husband, which on reflection I knew would be hurtful. We have been together for 30 years, and in this time I have learned that some things are better left unsaid or given a lot of thought and prayer about before being said in a careful way.

I realised that this is something I have learned out of love for my husband and also respect for myself, and I realised that I have learned the same thing applies to my relationship with God. So there are times when I choose to be mute and I try when I speak to be careful and thoughtful.

Phillippians Chapter 4.

Ephesians 3:16

Don't you think God knows our thoughts? Knows everything about us, our heart, our reactions to what is happening? Jesus said that to think lust was to commit adultery. He also said that sin is birthed in the heart.

I don't really understand the "mute" thing. Mostly because I cannot find it in Scripture. None of are even capable of it. Our thoughts speak as loudly as our words and God hears every single one. Thinking that we have the ability to "be still" before God is like telling a brook to stop babbling


Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Back when I was in the Hebrew Roots Movement, I started to get swept up into kabbalah. I was told it was the "good kind" because I was studying Avi ben Mordechai's "Messiah 3" book which takes Christ and inserts Him as the "middle pillar" of the sefirotic tree.

When I first started reading the book, it drew me into the concept that God is so vast, so immeasurable, and "unapproachable light", so magnificent, infinite, Glorified compared to us as puny human beings. I was so overwrought with fear that I felt I could not pray, could not speak to God. That any attempt on my part to communicate with Him was shear folly on my part. I collapsed in pure misery and tears for days. I was inconsolable. At some point, in the deepest part of my soul, God stirred my response and my thinking that something was terribly wrong. I set the book down and refused to read any more. It was the worst time of my life, not knowing what I was supposed to do.

It was about that time that God send someone into my life and I began to see the occult nature of "all" kabbalahs and the truth of it. That was the very first thing that began to draw me out of Hebrew Roots. From that moment, I have never again feared to reach out to God no matter what I felt or how disturbed I was at what was happening to me and others in my life. There is nothing that can shake me from the kind of relationship with the Lord that I have. He is my ALL in ALL. He knows me like no one else. I can hide nothing from Him, not even my deepest thoughts or reactions to what I am going through and how I am reacting. And for that I praise His Name every day.




Psa 6:1 <To the chief Musician on Neginoth upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David.> O LORD, rebuke me not in thine anger, neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.
Psa 6:2 Have mercy upon me, O LORD; for I am weak: O LORD, heal me; for my bones are vexed.
Psa 6:3 My soul is also sore vexed: but thou, O LORD, how long?
Psa 6:4 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake.
Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Psa 6:6 I am weary with my groaning; all the night make I my bed to swim; I water my couch with my tears.
Psa 6:7 Mine eye is consumed because of grief; it waxeth old because of all mine enemies.
Psa 6:8 Depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity; for the LORD hath heard the voice of my weeping.
Psa 6:9 The LORD hath heard my supplication; the LORD will receive my prayer.
Psa 6:10 Let all mine enemies be ashamed and sore vexed: let them return and be ashamed suddenly.

H926 - vexed
בּהל
bâhal
BDB Definition:
1) to disturb, alarm, terrify, hurry, be disturbed, be anxious, be afraid, be hurried, be nervous
1a) (Niphal)
1a1) to be disturbed, dismayed, terrified, anxious
1a2) to be in haste, be hasty
1b) (Piel)
1b1) to make haste, act hastily, be hurried, be hastened
1b2) to dismay, terrify
1c) (Pual)
1c1) to hasten
1c2) hastened, hastily gained (participle)
1d) (Hiphil)
1d1) to hasten, hurry, make haste
1d2) to dismay, terrify

H3708 - grief
כּעשׂ / כּעס
ka‛as / ka‛aś
BDB Definition:
1) anger, vexation, provocation, grief
1a) vexation
1a1) of men
1a2) of God
1b) vexation, grief, frustration

It is one of my greatest joys and comfort to know that my Father knows my every thought, feeling, reaction, hope and fear.

Years ago, in a time when I had been backslidden, and had not looked at even the cover of my bible for some time, my husband walked out on me and I had no idea whether he would come back. I was devastated and cried and cried. I was all alone, and thought of all the people I could call for help, only to realise calling any of them would cause more problems. I sat on my bed, just sobbing, physically in pain and without any thought in my head of turning to God. But He graciously put in my head this thought "Be still and know that I am God" . This thought jerked me into another - is this a bible verse? I dug out my bible, and flicked through - Praise God I found it quite quickly - (no Bible word search tools available to me 20 years ago!) and so returned to His Path. I look back over the years at all the ups and downs, especially the last 6 years, and I thank God that he has taught me that I can trust Him. While I still await the outcome of many answered prayers, I am assured He has answered, and I can wait in peace and patience.

You say that you do not find the concept of being mute (silent) in scripture, so my questions are:

What does "be still and know that I am God" (Psalm 46 vs 10) mean to you?

What do you think "It is good that a man should both hope and quietly
wait for the salvation of the Lord" (Lamentations 3 vs 26) means?

Where in Scripture does God tell us to rage against Him and question Him? To murmur and complain against Him? I know that there are many examples of people doing just that, but what is the outcome in those instances and what conclusions do people like David and Job come to?

God tells us many times and in many ways to put off anger, why should we hold anger against Him when things go wrong?

Earlier in the thread I asked some other questions too, that apply.

I've done the raging, complaining, questioning of God (the what are you thinking! type) but He has faithfully taught me I can trust Him, and he has given me peace and quiet in my soul. Perhaps I shouldn't be amazed that even Christians question this and think I'm in some sort of denial - it is after all the "peace that passeth understanding".

And maybe it's because for many, if we're not raging and complaining, we think the trouble isn't real. And also, if we keep raging and complaining we can avoid for that bit longer looking at what we need to change or let go of, within ourselves.

[Vic]

I find it interesting that the word silent is only found in the OT. Any reference to silence in the NT is not concerning this type of concept. In the OT the verses are often in response to those who had followed after or were worshipping false gods, were in rebellion ie Israel, etc. Often the situation was going to battle or dealing with that type of issue where waiting on God to 'move mountains' seemed imperative. The verse in Lamentations--which book was about Jerusalem/Israel and written I believe by Jeremiah, was about simply stopping in the midst of all the things going on and remembering who God was, in the midst of all those false gods. Waiting for the salvation of the Lord was not simply referring to Christ as the promised Messiah, it was deliverance from the wars and all the things Israel was involved in. In fact if we look at the context, we see:

Lam 3:42 We have transgressed and have rebelled: thou hast not pardoned.
Lam 3:43 Thou hast covered with anger, and persecuted us: thou hast slain, thou hast not pitied.

That is not what we as believers are to be about. We have received the salvation of God, which the prophets of the OT only hoped for. We have the precious promises, Because of Christ,

Psalms 103:11-14 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him. 12. As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. 13. Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him. 14. For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
1Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we are to remain silent during our daily lives, come what may, then it flies in the face of:

Luk 18:1 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;

1Th 5:15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
1Th 5:16 Rejoice evermore.
1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
1Th 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Rom 12:12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

Patient in tribulation does not mean being silent in it---it means continuing in prayer., which means talking to God, or crying out to God if one has a mind to do that.

Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Col 4:2 Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving;
Col 4:3 Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:

I believe that by taking all to prayer, that God does give perfect peace that passes all understanding, but I don't believe we are to remain mute; it is not what Jesus calls us to. There's a difference in being in communion with God and being aware of the very awesomeness of who He is, and acknowledging that in our spirit, because in that we are still communicating with God, versus being silent and 'mute' in our time of need/crisis/difficulty/chastisement. That is when we especially need to be praying and seeking God. Not remaining silent in moments of distress, because nine times out of ten, if we are not communicating with God and going to Him in those moments, that is when we can feel alone, under attack, and the flesh can take over. It's that constant awareness that God is control and telling God all our concerns and praising Him for His faithfulness through it all, even if there seems no easy answer or a way out of our circumstances, that we are able to grow in grace and trust and abide in Him. It doesn't mean we are to complain bitterly with the victim mentality. That's not who we are to be in Christ.

1Pe 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
1Pe 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
1Pe 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that **the same afflictions*** are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while,make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
1Pe 5:11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.



afflictions
G3804
πάθημα
pathēma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which one suffers or has suffered
1a) externally, a suffering, misfortune, calamity, evil, affliction
1a1) of the sufferings of Christ
1a2) also the afflictions which Christians must undergo in behalf of the same cause which Christ patiently endured
1b) of an inward state, an affliction, passion
2) an enduring, undergoing, suffering

after that ye have suffered
G3958
πάσχω / πάθω / πένθω
paschō / pathō / penthō
Thayer Definition:
1) to be affected or have been affected, to feel, have a sensible experience, to undergo
1a) in a good sense, to be well off, in good case
1b) in a bad sense, to suffer sadly, be in a bad plight
1b1) of a sick person


make you perfect,G2675 G5209 stablish,G4741 strengthen,G4599 settleG2311 you

perfect
G2675
καταρτίζω
katartizō
Thayer Definition:
1) to render, i.e. to fit, sound, complete
1a) to mend (what has been broken or rent), to repair
1a1) to complete
1b) to fit out, equip, put in order, arrange, adjust
1b1) to fit or frame for one’s self, prepare
1c) ethically: to strengthen, perfect, complete, make one what he ought to be

stablish
G4741
στηρίζω
stērizō
Thayer Definition:
1) to make stable, place firmly, set fast, fix
2) to strengthen, make firm
3) to render constant, confirm, one’s mind

strengthen
G4599
σθενόω
sthenoō
Thayer Definition:
1) to make strong, strengthen
1a) of one’s soul

settle
G2311
θεμελιόω
themelioō
Thayer Definition:
1) to lay the foundation, to found
2) to make stable, establish

It does not say to be silent in the face of trials, sufferring etc. God wants us to be dialoguing with Him, no matter what. As we grow in grace and knowledge and mature, how we dialogue may change, and our responses to situations may change, but it is clear we are to dialogue. To me it means resolving that no matter what 'suffering or afflictions' that happen to us, we are to take it to God and know that He will take care of us. It means being able to face it all, with peace and joy in Christ. It means being able to share those things with others, even when it's a struggle because others are going through similar things and we are to encourage one another to run the race...no matter what.

I cannot remain silent in the midst of trouble, because God is my refuge and strength and it's to Him I go. I can't remain silent when He takes me through raging rivers because I must rejoice in His faithfulness. He might make me wait for an answer, but I know He will never leave or forsake me, so I do not want to remain silent to my better than best friend. Why would I?

[Mary]

It bothers me that because everyone has made up their minds about the book before reading it, that we now end up making much the same points Brooks done, but it becomes an argument.

Vic you have neatly summed up much of what Brooks says.

[Vic]

(02-08-2011 10:32 PM)Mary Wrote:  It bothers me that because everyone has made up their minds about the book before reading it, that we now end up making much the same points Brooks done, but it becomes an argument.

Vic you have neatly summed up much of what Brooks says.

Hi Mary, I think people are discussing it, aren't they? Not arguing? Disagreeing or having different ideas doesn't mean it's an argument in my opinion.

If I summed up what Brooks said, then his title is a misnomer as are the pages I read, and even what has been discussed.

You said in your first post:

Quote:The book is dedicated to:

"To all afflicted and distressed, dissatisfied, disquieted, and discomposed Christians throughout the world."

The author calls us to a prudent, gracious , holy silence before the Lord in our afflictions.

Everything I said in my last post was to not be silent but to pray as we are called to according to the Scriptures, no matter what. It does not mean to remain silent--it means to talk to God. That isn't being silent.

Your example of when you fell away from God was proof of point. You were lost and in great anguish, and were casting around for answers, considering going to friends in your great distress instead of going to God in prayer. You forgot God. We've probably all been there at some time or other. The point is, the be still and know that I am God, was for each to stop seeking after false hopes and false gods and things of the flesh, but seek God, knowing who He is. And the very first thing to do is to pray, repent , pour out our hearts to Him, whether it be with praise and worship, tell him we are afraid, tell him it is too hard , whatever the circumstances we are in, He wants us to trust Him, no matter what. He is ever present, and that means His promise of leading us in straight paths, regardless how difficult the path. It means telling him how weak we are and unable, knowing He is able. It means learning not to ask why, but to trust and desire God's purposes will be fulfilled and His will be done. Sometimes just communing in the spirit and acknowledging Him is all we are able to do for a moment, but then He gives the comfort and we are to pray and read His Word and comfort and encouragement are given.

Paul wrote of

2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
2Co 4:8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
2Co 4:9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
2Co 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
2Co 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
2Co 4:12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

troubled
G2346
θλίβω
thlibō
Thayer Definition:
1) to press (as grapes), press hard upon
2) a compressed way
2a) narrow straitened, contracted
3) metaphorically to trouble, afflict, distress

not distressed
G4729
στενοχωρέω
stenochōreō
Thayer Definition:
1) to be in a narrow place
2) to straiten, compress, cramp, reduce to straits
2a) to be sorely straitened in spirit

perplexed
G639
ἀπορέω
aporeō
Thayer Definition:
1) to be without resources, to be in straits, to be left wanting, to be embarrassed, to be in doubt, not to know which way to turn
2) to be at a loss with one’s self, be in doubt
3) not to know how to decide or what to do, to be perplexed

not forsaken
G1459
ἐγκαταλείπω
egkataleipō
Thayer Definition:
1) abandon, desert
1a) leave in straits, leave helpless
1b) totally abandoned, utterly forsaken
2) to leave behind among, to leave surviving

cast down
G2598
καταβάλλω
kataballō
Thayer Definition:
1) to cast down
1a) to throw to the ground, prostate
2) to put in a lower place
2a) to lay (down) a foundation

not destroyed
G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
Thayer Definition:
1) to destroy
1a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin
1b) render useless
1c) to kill
1d) to declare that one must be put to death
1e) metaphorically to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell
1f) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed
2) to destroy
2a) to lose

Paul shows the reality of living a life for Christ, suffering and afflictions abounded, and they were troubled, perplexed, persecuted, cast down, but they were not distressed, despaired, forsaken or destroyed. They still felt things in the flesh [Romans 7], but manifested Christ in victory.

Paul also said that he warned with tears, Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. ...Act 20:37 And they all wept sore, and fell on Paul's neck, and kissed him,
Act 20:38 Sorrowing most of all for the words which he spake, that they should see his face no more. And they accompanied him unto the ship.

Act 21:12 And when we heard these things, both we, and they of that place, besought him not to go up to Jerusalem.
Act 21:13 Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 21:14 And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.

Living for Christ does not even imply there will not be moments of deep anguish, or tears or wanting to know what God has in mind, or wishing things could be different. We merely have to look at the Scriptures to see example after example of people showing the depths of feelings through all manner of difficulties. It doesn't mean being silent, but rather being honest about how we feel. Hopefully as we mature, those feelings include an acceptance of all that comes our way, knowing full well, God will take us through whatever happens, and it is with our committment to trust Him and pray without ceasing that we will reflect Christ in it all.

An article I posted in 2003, which I printed out as a reminder and have had it on the wall beside my computer.> God is in Control > http://www.seekgod.ca/control.htm

If the purpose of the book was to merely acknowledge those truths, I think there would have been a better way to announce it than the title he gave.

Quote:Such a silence reflects that we acknowledge that God is the author of our afflictions and that we recognise that we are under the acting hand of God and are awed by his sovereignity; that we are calm in mind and spirit because we trust God. such silence clears God of injustice and blame. The author discusses Lamentations 3: 22-33

...
A holy, prudent silence reflects that we are surrendered to God, and resigned to His control, and also that we will wait patiently for His deliverance.

... From what I have read so far, I think the message of the book can be summed up in Psalm 46:

1. God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.
2. Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;
3. Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah.
4. There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High.
5. God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early.
6. The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.
7. The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.
8. Come, behold the works of the LORD, what desolations he hath made in the earth.
9. He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire.
10. Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
11. The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.


with the message of verse 10: Be still, and know that I am God

Resting in God is not the same as being silent and saying nothing. We are still in the flesh and there will always be the flesh to contend with in difficult circumstances. Waiting upon the Lord for an answer is not the same as remaining silent and hence not praying about things. To me there is a huge difference in what is presented in those first pages, which I did read Mary, and applying the Scriptures as believers.

Quote:all these verses come from the introduction where he tells why he is writing on the subject of suffering, and he asks readers to test it against the Word, think about it and pray.

In the list of Scriptures you put in from the Introductionin in your prior posts, are ones to me, that had nothing to do with the context of suffering or trials, and how to deal with them and the application seemed off at best. But that was just my opinion.

If you found the book of use and helped you look into the Scriptures and it helped find some you weren't aware of, then that is totally fine. I guess I have gotten so used to doing word studies and topical searches, and cross referencing with my Bible program, that I find digging in that way works really well for me.