The Messiah..born of a virgin...

[sari83]

(05-22-2011 12:50 PM)Vic Wrote:  Sarah YOur logic is not working. That would be like saying how could something that happened 6ooo years ago pertain to Christ....but wasnt' written about until about 4000 years ago....Genesis 1:1

Gen 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (KJV)

In the beginning....how many years ago did the world begin and exactly how old is the earth? Can you clearly find the answer in Genesis chapter 1 or anywhere in the Bible?

(05-22-2011 12:50 PM)Vic Wrote:  In many instances a passage of prophecy can have 1 or 2 verses or more specifically in reference to and pointing to Jesus Christ in amongst other declarations. For example--these are totally about Christ in the midst of other declarations.

Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Deu 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Zec 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
Zec 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

These are perfect examples of prophecies that will take place at a vague point in the future. Whereas Isaiah 7 is specific to the fact that it will take place in the very near future.

(05-22-2011 12:50 PM)Vic Wrote:  God with us is more than symbolic. It is the meaning of one of the Names of Messiah that is Jesus Christ. That you don't believe that is your choice. But that is what the Scriptures---inspired by God, state.

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

"Behold, a virgin shall conceive # 2030

2030 hareh (haw-reh'); or hariy (haw-ree'); from 2029; pregnant:

I thought I'd take a look at other verses were 'hareh' was used. Interestingly, the word is used to denote a woman who's presently pregnant or with child. (There is no future tense implications)

Some examples:

Gen 16:11
And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou [art with child #2030 hareh], and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. (KJV)


1 Sam 4:19
And his daughter in law, Phinehas' wife, [was with child #2030 hareh], near to be delivered: and when she heard the tidings that the ark of God was taken, and that her father in law and her husband were dead, she bowed herself and travailed; for her pains came upon her. (KJV)

Isa 26:17
Like as a woman [with child #2030 hareh], that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD. (KJV)

(05-22-2011 12:50 PM)Vic Wrote:  You have to actually believe the Scriptures to be of God in order to understand them. That is why you deny them repeatedly and look for all manner of excuses why they can't be true. Because to believe them means you have to believe Christ and who HE IS.

I believe the truth is in the Scriptures. And I don't intentionally look for discrepancies, but I try to reconcile the ones I've found.

I can't prove that the Scriptures have been handled fraudulently because we don't have the orginals. And whomever it was who saw it fit to destroy the original holy documents, God will rightly judge them.

(05-11-2011 02:33 PM)Vic Wrote:  That's because you have chosen to not believe the Truth. Every person makes that choice. We have these many warnings, and they are all related to knowing who Jesus Christ is.

1Jn 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. [/color]

I think these verses are possibly speaking against the gnostics who believed that Christ was only a spirit, and had not come in the flesh.

I am not denying that Christ came in the flesh. I am denying that a spirit conceived a child in a human being, thus I am denying that God breaks the very laws of nature, that He Himself put into place.

(05-11-2011 02:33 PM)Vic Wrote:  Part of your problem Sarah is you like to ignore the passages which would prove you wrong. What did Jesus say--who, according to your statements above must be a liar....But Jesus said, John the Baptist fulfilled those very prophecies including the one about Elijah.

I know what Jesus said about John being Elijah, and that is why I'm trying to reconcile why John would answer no when asked if he was Elijah. I see it as a discrepancy to be resolved.

(05-11-2011 02:33 PM)Vic Wrote:  Endless and pointless speculation Sarah. It doesn't matter why he asked. Because you certainly don't know the mindset or reason, nor will you accept anything but your own private interpretation--which goes against the scriptures which you don't believe anyway. But we do know Jesus declared He was the fulfillment of prophecy, the Messiah, and He declared to the people who John really was.

That's an authoritarian viewpoint--No individual may have an interpretation apart from the church:

Is that what the Master said?

Luke 10:25-26
And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? (KJV)

(05-11-2011 02:33 PM)Vic Wrote:  NO Sarah, there is no heavy yoke in Christ. Believing the Scriptures which are God's Word to us, is no burden. If you don't believe the Scriptures you cannot believe God. Because He said all Scriptures were given by HIs inspiration. He said no prophecy is of private interpretation--meaning it wasn't just given by vain imagination or personal interpretation. It is fully understood via the understanding by the HOly Spirit.

You are suggesting you just get to pick and choose what you believe in the Scriptures---sort of like a smorg--stuff you don't like you don't take. Stuff you do like you take. That isn't of God. It is an all or nothing belief. If you deny one word of Christ---and for example as you have concerning even who John the Baptist is and what prophecies he fulfilled, you also deny Christ and the prophecies related to Him with John the Baptist.

YOu deny Christ's divinity and because of that you deny, that He is the salvation of GOd, the intercessor, the righteous right arm of God, and many many Scriptures which declare HIm God, and all the prophecies which declare Him. Declare HIm God manifest in the flesh; declare HIm the salvation of God.

There is not one Scripture that suggests you can pick and choose which Scriptures you want to believe as being all you need to believe. God's Word either stands true or it is lies. YOu are saying it holds lies. THerefore it cannot be God's Word for you.

Because God's Word is faithful and true. It is True from cover to cover. Every prophecy is true, and Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy. So you deny any prophecies you then therefore deny Christ.

Is God constrained to a book? I don't think so. His word is present in every part of creation, and is that which proceeds from Him.

Yes, God has given prophecies and written words to mankind, but is that His only means of speaking to us?

I can see the point you are making from the Scripture verses you have chosen below. However, consider that very some book teaches of those who were predestined to know Him.