The Messiah..born of a virgin...

[Vic]

(05-23-2011 02:04 PM)sari83 Wrote:  If I read something and it doesn't fit in with the other pieces to the puzzle, (even if it's in the bible) I'm not afraid to question, and hopefully gain a further understanding. From this, you perceive me as someone whom it is "pointless" to discuss biblical matters with. Obviously, as a believer my stance is not an easy one.

Sarah it isn't a puzzle or a riddle. It's the Word of God which we receive understanding of from the Holy Spirit. We have to believe it first or it will never be clear. or make sense or be true to us. You don't believe it to be true therefore stumble over verse after verse--to your own destruction.

Sarah, if you don't receive what is said from the Scriptures it becomes unedifying after awhile to repeat and repeat again things that the person receiving is not hearing but rather covering their ears and rejecting it. You clearly and repeatedly reject who Christ is and deceive yourself into thinking that doesn't impact your understanding of other passages. It's truly a dominoe effect. And it is the very foundation of belief to know WHO Christ is.

Your stance is being a believer of your own doctrine Sarah. It is not the Scriptural doctrine or doctrine of Christ. That's the difference. And don't even try to play me about the cost of being a believer. I well know the cost of someone living for Jesus Christ. As do all those who walk according to the Gospel. You do not because you do not know Jesus of the Scriptures. You have another gospel and another Jesus--which you don't call Jesus anyway...but that's another thread isn't it.

If you truly were seeking Truth, there would be evidence in what you say in response to Scriptures. THis is an apologetics forum for a reason Sarah.

Quote:Of course there is. I don't think I have been argumentative except in these few areas where the explanations do not satisfy my original questions.

Well I would strongly disagree with that Sarah. The explanations are given fully and Scripturally and clearly. You refuse the Scriptures and the truths they hold concerning Christ. That's the bottom line.

Quote:I haven't been in dialogue with many others here. So, I'm not sure who these non-Christians you are referring to are?! But--what can be seen from my posts is that I certainly don't dismiss all the information that is presented. I see nothing wrong with analyzing the context of what is written, and whether it fits in with all the other pieces. You see it as blasphemy, and so would many others because of the doctrine of biblical inerrancy. (The belief that the Bible has no errors)

Sarah, I wasn't meaning specifically people here. Actually for the most part you don't acknowledge what is said but merely appear to dismiss what is presented and move on to another perceived 'discrepancy' or error' or untruth....The problem with the pieces of your puzzle is that they don't fit the 'puzzle' within the True Word of God. They belong to another. Sarah, the Bible doesn't have errors--it was inspired by God. Even in translation from one language to the next, the Truth is there. Your problem is you get all bunched up over a word, instead of understanding what is being said. Because you don't wish to believe what is in the Scriptures.

For example you don't want to believe this:

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

The second man is referring to Jesus Christ who is what????? The LORD from heaven.

Why don't you want to believe it? Because that means Jesus is divine, and God manifest in the flesh....which means the Scriptures concerning the virgin birth etc must be all true...but you believe them all lies...

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Yes I know. We've been here and done that and you reject it all. Which is precisely my point. One denial topples verse after verse.

Quote:It is true; I have been greatly blessed with a immensity of time to study over these past 9 years. I don't claim any expertise though. The virgin birth is the only "biblical truth" that I have completely dismissed thus far in our discussions.

Sarah, my point about the 9 years was not a pat on the back. You literally know nothing in the scheme of things. But you determine you know, when in fact you don't know. Part of the fruit of the Spirit is Truth and abiding the Word of God. You don't abide the Word of God. It's the Sword of the Spirit--it's how we see truth and error. And you reject it. You reject the written record of Christ, the propehcy to Mary and Joseph, the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit to the virgin Mary--all Scriptural record, and the prophecy concerning the virgin birth....and that topples the divinity of Christ and so much more. So you see, you have dismissed far more than one phrase called the "virgin' birth".

Quote:The only thing I don't believe is that the Bible as we have it today, in all of it's many translations, is without error.

You also don't believe what is in it Sarah. Nor do you believe God or what Christ said. That's reality.

(05-23-2011 12:30 PM)Vic Wrote:  But please, do clarify if there is any point pursuing any discussion with you. Because it is you who is walking in and spewing unbelief about Jesus Christ and the Word of God.

Quote:If this is not the place to discuss scriptural matters objectively, I completely understand, and will discontinue in discussions immediately.

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Don't try and play me Sarah. This is a discussion forum and the Scriptures are discussed continually. Your issue is you don't believe the Scriptures. Unless you can make them fit your "logic' and reasoning and "wisdom'. You deny the Scriptures so you actually discussing them and hearing what they say is what is at odds. You can't say you are here to discuss them and then start saying they aren't true or have discrepancies and errors and have been handled fraudulently although with no proof of such....they are true and the discrepancy is--you don't believe that for a second. There's the rub.

Quote:One last note, here are some verses in Hebrews that clearly explain who Jesus is, and in simplest terms:\\\

Would you like me to again list all the Scriptures that show Jesus as God manifest in the flesh? That show His divinity? That show His being made in the flesh....and why?

Not likely ...we've already been there done that.