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The Abrahamic covenant

Ekklesia
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#11

(05-19-2011, 02:33 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote: Israel broke at least one covenant with God, but does the one He made with Abraham still apply?

[Psalm 105: 8-10] answers your question:
"He remembers his covenant forever, the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations, the covenant that he made with Abraham, his sworn promise to Isaac, which he confirmed to Jacob as a statute, to Israel as an everlasting covenant ..."

[Hosea 2:19] Repeats the promise in future tense (and shows Israel to be His eternal bride; for God's word is good):
"And I will betroth you to me forever. I will betroth you to me in righteousness and in justice, in steadfast love and in mercy."

The answer to your question, YYZ Skinhead, is clear - it is "Yes".

Notice, that the New Covenant was promised to the House of Judah and the House of Israel [Jer 31:31][Heb 8:8], and to whom Jesus was sent [Matt 15:24], and to whom he sent his disciples [Matt 10:6].
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Ekklesia
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#12
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2011, 09:20 PM by Ekklesia.)

(Duplicate post, please forgive. Unable to delete, admin please delete for me - thanks)
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corecrash
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#13

(05-20-2011, 10:40 AM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:
Quote:Thank you. I have other versions and I am aware of translations. I agree with the translations you posted. But don't you see that it shows that when Ad-nai is accepted and and the Ruach HaKodesh is in a believers life, He (the Father) gives us wisdom and the scriptures open up? I
It adds words in the verse that aren't there, though.The words "says the Torah" just arent there.If that doesn't bother you then its fine but it would bother me and I am pointing it out for those who think that the CJB is an accurate translation.

I'm new here, but I've been reading and am fascinated with all that I've read so far.

I'm not really one of those people that adheres to certain translations saying one is better than the other but I wanted to inject my 2 cents worth here.

There are lots of translations that paraphrase and I've heard throughout the years since I became a christian that one group is going to hell for reading the NIV or the other group is this or that.

There are words that are inserted in the KJV and all the others. Heck, look at the The Message translation. It has lots of insertions.

But, I look at it this way. Is the overall meaning changed? I think daughterofmosthigh has the meaning correct, regardless if she had to get that from multiple translations or just one.

God told us not to change the Word of God but I don't think we are to be like the Pharisee's and take it the nth degree as to say we cannot make a single change as that would invalidate any and all english translations, latin, etc. Think of it this way. I've read in these forums that some folks in certain movements think the translators from Greek to English made mistakes but they shouldn't' be worried because those men were smart and knew what they were doing. I agree with that statement, but likewise, it can be said of all translators. Most of them have good intentions and know what they are doing.

Now if the root meaning is changed, then I think we have a problem.
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Vic
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#14

(06-25-2012, 09:28 AM)corecrash Wrote:
(05-20-2011, 10:40 AM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:
Quote:Thank you. I have other versions and I am aware of translations. I agree with the translations you posted. But don't you see that it shows that when Ad-nai is accepted and and the Ruach HaKodesh is in a believers life, He (the Father) gives us wisdom and the scriptures open up? I
It adds words in the verse that aren't there, though.The words "says the Torah" just arent there.If that doesn't bother you then its fine but it would bother me and I am pointing it out for those who think that the CJB is an accurate translation.

I'm new here, but I've been reading and am fascinated with all that I've read so far.

I'm not really one of those people that adheres to certain translations saying one is better than the other but I wanted to inject my 2 cents worth here.

There are lots of translations that paraphrase and I've heard throughout the years since I became a christian that one group is going to hell for reading the NIV or the other group is this or that.

There are words that are inserted in the KJV and all the others. Heck, look at the The Message translation. It has lots of insertions.

But, I look at it this way. Is the overall meaning changed? I think daughterofmosthigh has the meaning correct, regardless if she had to get that from multiple translations or just one.

God told us not to change the Word of God but I don't think we are to be like the Pharisee's and take it the nth degree as to say we cannot make a single change as that would invalidate any and all english translations, latin, etc. Think of it this way. I've read in these forums that some folks in certain movements think the translators from Greek to English made mistakes but they shouldn't' be worried because those men were smart and knew what they were doing. I agree with that statement, but likewise, it can be said of all translators. Most of them have good intentions and know what they are doing.

Now if the root meaning is changed, then I think we have a problem.

Hi corecrash,

First, welcome to the forum. Please take the time to introduce yourself here > Introduce Yourself! ALL NEWBIES * Please Do MAKE THIS YOUR FIRST POST! DID YOU READ THE FORUM RULES? http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=17

Second, please do make sure you have read the forum rules in their entirety. http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=2

Third, you are doing a lot of posting, which I appreciate, but would ask you to slow down a bit and perhaps take a little more time reading as you posting thoughts into threads that are actually found in other related threads to your various posts. Thank you.

I think your suppositions about translations are missing various facts to back up your statements. As Rose was pointing out, the words being used were not in the originals and it fully >changed< the intended meaning. THere is a difference when translating into another language to make a sentence make sense from one language to the next. There is a difference if one omits or changes the original information in that translation and hence changes the message conveyed, the root is changed and that can be shown many times, as was the point Rose was making.

There is a section about Bible versions if you wish to go indepth about that topic. Suffice it to say in this thread that there is a difference in a paraphrase, version or translation, and so on.

It would be inaccurate to suggest that all translators have good intentions and/or know what they are doing. Many have agendas contrary to Christ. And there are different source documents being used for various translations which means they can be and are different, and convey a very different message many times.

Vic
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3John 1:4  I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31  But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

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susanblange
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#15

God started his cult 5000 years ago with Abraham. The seed in which all of the earth would be blessed is the Messiah. The one great nation is Israel, and later the USA (Joseph/Ephraim) Abraham believed and it was counted to him for righteousness, God also taught Abraham trust and obeisance by the sacrifice of Isaac. It is more important to believe than to be of a certain ethnicity, the righteous come in all races, creeds, and colors.
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Rose of Shushan
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#16

Quote:The one great nation is Israel, and later the USA (Joseph/Ephraim)

89
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susanblange
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#17

My house shall be called a house of prayer for all people which includes all gentiles. The Messiah is coming to unite the righteous against the wicked. The meek will inherit the earth and will come back from heaven with the Lord at his second coming on the Mount of Olives. Zechariah 14:4-5. In that day there shall be one Lord and his name one. When the earth witnesses this all other religions will be forsaken and the Lord will reign forever and ever.
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micha'l
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#18

(05-19-2011, 02:33 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote: Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Israel broke at least one covenant with God, but does the one He made with Abraham still apply? Does it refer to the tribal descendants (the Israelites and later, ethnic Jews and perhaps the nation of Israel) or the spiritual descendants (people of the Jewish faith and through Jesus, Christians)? "In thee shall all families of the earth be blessed" can refer to Moses and all of the Jews God entrusted with transcribing the Word, and to Jesus Who was Jewish and said that salvation is of the Jews.

Shalom,

Of course the covenant with Abraham still applies. But in that ALL the promises belong to Christ - Gal3:16 - no Jew - or Gentile - will inherit anything apart from Christ. The covenant concerning the Land is not separate from Christ.

Micha'l
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fadestyle
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#19

(04-17-2014, 06:34 PM)micha Wrote:
(05-19-2011, 02:33 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote: Gen 12:1    Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Gen 12:2    And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 12:3    And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Israel broke at least one covenant with God, but does the one He made with Abraham still apply?  Does it refer to the tribal descendants (the Israelites and later, ethnic Jews and perhaps the nation of Israel) or the spiritual descendants (people of the Jewish faith and through Jesus, Christians)?  "In thee shall all families of the earth be blessed" can refer to Moses and all of the Jews God entrusted with transcribing the Word, and to Jesus Who was Jewish and said that salvation is of the Jews.  

Shalom,

Of course the covenant with Abraham still applies. But in that ALL the promises belong to Christ - Gal3:16 - no Jew - or Gentile - will inherit anything apart from Christ. The covenant concerning the Land is not  separate from Christ.

Micha'l

only Abraham's promise still applies? what verses are you using to propose this? What version of the bible are you using? "No Jew or gentile" where is that?

does God change? Does God lie?
Does Jesus Change?
I think we all know the answer to all those.

maybe we should look at Gal 3:16 and continue reading to gain the WHOLE counsel of God.

Gal_3:16  Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:22  But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Heb_8:6  But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Matter of good practice and fact we should always review the original manuscript languages and view the message through the eyes of the men that penned the words God gave them during their time to be able to absorb the context that is intended BY GOD. I suggest to all people searching for truth put aside all filters and traditions and bias thoughts and come to God with and open heart and mind and look at the promises that are continued along with the covanant that exists by reading the Greek definitions of the English words we read for the book of Galatians chapter 8 verse 6 and you will understand why the promises still exist and will persist if we do what God commands.

Deu_7:9  Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

1Ch_16:15  Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;

Psa_105:8  He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.

God does not lie or change. If he lied or changed Israel would not have the promises of their land and blessings today as we can see and we would all be able to use Jesus death as an excuse to sin. God forbid!


Heb_6:12  That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

How many years is a thousand generations? Have all these generations passed? Has heaven and earth passed yet?

There is a definition of sin in the (Re) New Testament... we should use it.

Everyone says with nausea to "walk like Jesus" and "what would Jesus do" without even thinking about what Jesus actually did do.
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Lois
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#20

Hi Fadestyle,

Micha'l hasn't been an active poster in a long time but maybe I can help you with some of your concerns with what was posted and address some concerns I have with what you have posted.

Fadestyle, you asked "only Abraham's promise still applies?what verses are you using to propose this?"
If you reread what was posted no one actually proposed "only Abraham's promise still applies" you kind of inserted that into the conversation.


Quote:"What version of the bible are you using?"
I personally use the KJV because I don't like my food pre chewed before I consume it but that is a topic for another thread.


Quote:" "No Jew or gentile" where is that?"
I'm sure he was referring to Gal 3:28

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Quote:"Matter of good practice and fact we should always review the original manuscript languages and view the message through the eyes of the men that penned the words God gave them during their time to be able to absorb the context that is intended BY GOD. I suggest to all people searching for truth put aside all filters and traditions and bias thoughts and come to God with and open heart and mind and look at the promises that are continued along with the covanant that exists by reading the Greek definitions of the English words we read for the book of Galatians chapter 8 verse 6 and you will understand why the promises still exist and will persist if we do what God commands."

This paragraph is very puzzling to me.
So, you gave us your biased method of filtering and then told "people" to set aside bias and filtering?   89

Could you show where your tradition of filtering is practiced in scripture?

I would also like to know where scripture teaches people they should have an "open heart and open mind"?

There is no Galatians chapter 8.I'm sure it was probably just a typo.

I'm also confused as to why you would put "(Re)" in front of New Testament. Hopefully it's not because you are filtering everything  through the biased thoughts and views of those that teach a "renewed", or "restored" covenant. Swoon
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.(2John 1:9)
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