Christian Identity & British Israelism and the varied doctrine
06-27-2011, 08:03 PM
RE: As Requested - My first post
Quote:I'm not the one imposing constraints here, Jesus is. I'm taking His words at face value, [Matt 15:24] "He answered, 'I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.'" (which is exactly what was prophesied in [Jer 31:31] (though I know many don't take his word at face value - I read plainly that which is plain).
Mat 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
Mat 15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Mat 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
Mat 15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
His mission,until His death , as I mentioned elsewhere in this thread was primarily to the House of Israel since they were heirs of the promises made to the patriarchs.
Jeremiah 31 31 was addressed to the House of Israel and Judah since they had been two separate kingdoms at the time the prophecy was given.Just because the Gentiles are not mentioned in those particular verses doesn't mean that they dont partake in that new Covenant too.
There are many other verses in the OT which do show that Gentiles/non Israelites will also be included.
Quote:What do mean by gentiles? The Greek word which gets translated into English as 'gentiles' was the Greek word ἔθνος (ethnos G1484) which meant 'nations' in Greek. The Greek word did not mean 'non-Israelite', if that's how you're using it, rather it meant nations which never applies to individuals.
I am sorry if I now have to also mince my words when we talk of gentiles and nations.Gentiles..nations..goyim are those which are generally not Israelites.Or are you meaning that all nations are made up of Israelites.Surely not right?
When I referred to the case of the syrophoenician woman being a non Israelite that Jesus ministered to you said
Quote:You're referring to [Mark 7:26] which has in English the singular word 'gentile' except that Greek word used there was Ἑλληνίς (Hellēnis G1674) which means Greek, and nothing more.
I will paste the verse for you
Mar 7:26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.
My KJV has greek there not gentile.
So what is your point there, that the Syrophoenician woman was an Israelite?
When I said that It makes total sense that Christ's ministry was to have been primarily to Israel and that one of Christ's missions was to regather Israel and save the people lost in their sins and incurring all the curses that were a result of them breaking the Covenant of Sinai , you said
Quote:It may make sense from 'mans' thinking, but is it consistent with what the bible says? I say "No" and am willing to show it, biblically.Now I am even more confused as to why you disagree with that.I would appreciate it f indeed you would show me.
I had written "From the Scriptures we know that on Christ's death the wall of partition between jew and gentile was broken down and it seems it is then that the Old Covenant is laid to rest and the New ushered in." and you in turn said
Quote:You recognize that a veil existed that separated the House of Judah from the House of Israel? How do you know that that veil which was torn was not the one separating those two IAW [Eze 37:15-18]?My answer is that no, that is not what I was referring to.From where do you get about a veil that separated the House of Israel from the House of Judah?
Eze 37:15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
Eze 37:16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
Eze 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
I don't see any talk there of a veil.The veil I was referring to was the one mentioned in
Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
In that last Ephesians passage, it is ver clearly talking about a distinction between israelite and non israelite since Paul had said
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
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