Christian Identity & British Israelism and the varied doctrine

[Ekklesia]

(06-28-2011 09:06 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:  As to me arguing against the idea that we are saved by bloodline, what I am arguing against is that you seem to promote bloodline and Jesus.

Rose, we are talking about what God promised Abraham and his offspring forever.

[Gen 28:14] says "Your offspring shall be like the dust of the earth, and you shall spread abroad to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south, and in you and your offspring shall all the families of the earth be blessed."

Likewise, about Isaac, [Gen 17:19] says "..I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his offspring after him."

About Jacob, [Gen 32:12] says "But you said, 'I will surely do you good, and make your offspring as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.'".

[Gen 35:11] says "And God said to him, "I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply. A nation {Judah} and a company of nations {Israel} shall come from you, and kings shall come from your own body." repeated in [Gen 48:4] "Behold, I will make you fruitful and multiply you, and I will make of you a company of peoples and will give this land to your offspring after you for an [b]everlasting possession.'"

[Gen 48:16] says ".. and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.”

I've already quoted you Jesus on the House of Israel.

Yet, you say I seem to promote bloodline. What I promote IS the bible. This bloodline business is IN the bible. Is it not in yours? If you won't believe me, won't you believe your bible?

Your argument seems to reflect the idea that because God choose a particular people to be his treasured possession, a particular people to be a light for the nations, a people he would shepherd, and who would recognize him as God, somehow this is bad. Just because God chose for himself a people does not mean that salvation is apart from Christ.

(06-28-2011 09:06 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:  So that it's not just the bloodline but that they also have to accept Jesus.

I've already agreed with you. The blood of Jesus saves, redeems, purifies. Nothing else does. Jesus is our perfect sacrifice, our pascal lamb, our Jubilee; our King, our prophet, our high priest. We have no controversy on this point.

(06-28-2011 09:06 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:  You yourself said that you regard christians as being Israel now.
While I can concede that christians are now the people of God and spiritually Israel, as Paul said the Israel of God, the House of Israel biblically is or are the descendants of Jacob.

I do regard Christian's as Israel; not figuratively, but actually (because I believe the bible completely). Furthermore, I know (and can show) how Christian's are Israel, both prophetically, and historically.

So if you recognize Christians as Israel, why should you do so figuratively? Do you not believe the bible literally?

If Christian's have received the blessings promised to Israel, if Christ the shepherd, was promised to Israel (the flock), if Christians are doing God's will in the world that was appointed to Israel, and Christians also exhibit prophetic fulfillment about Israel - why should you NOT believe that Christians ARE Israel?

Because if you can 'spiritualize' promises God actually made to an actually people, you can spiritualize anything in the bible you wish; heaven, hell, Christ. That is simply another way NOT to believe.

(06-28-2011 09:06 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:  In the OT the people of God are Israel.In the NT , Israel is at the point where the Sinai covenant has been broken by the people and God forges a new one.

Except that the bible says the new one would be made with the same people the old one was. I've presented the quotes (including Jesus' own) but you don't believe them. Yet you seem to recognized that Jesus was sent to regather them.

Israel broke the covenant, God divorced Israel for a while, and God reforged a new covenant with his people again. This is so important that God's prophets covered it frequently [Isaiah 11:11,12][Eze 37] etc.

(06-28-2011 09:06 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:  ... but also includes the nations ie those not of Israelite descent too.

This of course is common theology but is not specifically said in the bible. Show me where God forges a covenant with someone other than Israel, show me where God's calls someone other than Israel, his sheep, his bride, his garden, his branches.

(11-01-2010 11:12 AM)Vic Wrote:  We all make choices to believe or not believe what God has said. We cannot say we believe and then say, oh but I don't believe these things, but I have the truth. It simply doesn't work that way.

I believe that.