Christian Identity & British Israelism and the varied doctrine

[Vic]

(08-02-2011 11:37 AM)Ekklesia Wrote:  

(07-13-2011 09:32 PM)Vic Wrote:  No actually, you fixate specific things and separate the Word to try to make it into something that fits your beliefs, instead of changing your beliefs to abide the Word of God. Because that's the only way you can disseminate your beliefs here.

You haven't shown that I'm making anything 'fit my beliefs' Vic. I was asked why I believe Jesus came BUT to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, and I responded with a couple of verses from Matthew, followed up by a confirmatory prophecy in Jeremiah, repeated in Hebrews. Those verses were cited to support my assertion.

In this discussion, I continue to 'fixate' on those sections of the bible that support my claim, as long as you disbelieve my claim.

You've argued that you believe the bible to be true, and that you value EVERY word. I believe you. So explain Jesus' claim who He was sent ONLY to, in [Matt 15:24], or explain why the New Covenant was promised exactly to the same people in [Jer 31:31] (repeated in [Heb 8:8]).

My beliefs, in this case, conform precisely to what the bible says, which is why I continue to cite them. On the other hand, your position rejects them outright, or at least, hasn't provided sufficient reason to believe they shouldn't be read plainly.

Though Jesus says he comes ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (in [Matt 15:24]), your argument is that his actions show differently (thus you argue his actions contradict his words). Likewise, I assert, Jesus was clear who He sent his disciples to in [Matt 10:6], but your argument appears to refute even that.

If you don't want me to 'fixate' on particular verses, show how my plain understanding of those verses is wrong. Unfortunately, as long as my reading of particular verses continue to be challenged, (which is the controversy about whether or not, Jesus came ONLY to the House of Israel, or that He sent His disciples to the same ), I will continue to fixate on those verses, since my belief, dervies from their truth.

However, I can see why your position demands that you shun my continued use of those particular verses which support my claim.

You did not disappoint me or likely many others, Ekklesia. IN fact predictable would likely sum your response up. IN all the posts and questions directed to you regarding your beliefs, Christian Identity and British Israel beliefs which you said you could defend or explain, you refuse to even begin to answer the thoughts and questions put to you which would clarify your beliefs to all.

Regarding your fixation on the 'lost sheep' issue, --yes fixation--if you reread the thread you will see we all have made Scriptural response to the issue. You just don't want to hear those responses.

All Scriptures must be brought into the discussion which pertain to a topic, including the context of a passage where a verse is being ripped from. But I don't expect you to accept anything that is said to you nor do I expect you to qualify your British Israel/ CHristian Identity/ Lost Tribes beliefs according to the questions and thoughts put to you.

THis thread was not about Matthew 15:24. It was about all beliefs you as a Christian Identity/British Israel proponent hold to. YOu have been asked to answer many questions in order for all readers to understand what it is you believe about those things, as well as who you perceive your heritage to be linked to; who the Jews are etc.

YOu refuse because to answer the questions put to you exposes all manner of made up doctrine which is not found in the Scriptures or can be shown to be contrary to Scripture. You also don't explain why it is so important for Matthew 15:24 to be interpreted the way you want it interpreted--without the context and the rest of Scripture.

Of course Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel. No one has said otherwise. But He also died for all mankind. Salvation was offered to the Jew first, then the Gentiles. Jesus presented who He was to the Jews first, and any Gentiles were also given opportunity to know Him, but prophecy had to be fulfilled---who the Messiah was and the lineage He came through, including the throne of David. But just as the disciples were initially told to only go to Israel first, after Christ died He sent them out to the whole world. There were already Gentiles who believed, because they received what Christ Himself said, but then it became the fulfillment of the gift of salvation ie the Gospel preached to all mankind. These are things found in prophecy.

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Isa 42:2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
Isa 42:3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
Isa 42:4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

Isa 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
Rom 15:9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
Rom 15:10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.
Rom 15:11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.
Rom 15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

What many including yourself seem to miss, is that when CHrist died, He died for ALL. Any who believe who He is and what He did for us, is forgiven. One did not have to be of Israel to be reconciled to God or be forgiven. ONe had to become part of Christ, instead, by believing Him.

Psa 22:26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
Psa 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
Psa 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.

And no--we aren't pursuing this topic much further with you, because you refuse to answer far too many things that have been given in answer to you, and instead you try to control and direct the conversation away from those things. That's not dialoguing with someone. That's trying to manipulate and control the conversation in order to promote a belief which cannot stand the test of Scripture.

There's been way too many verses, facts and information given to you, that you are totally ignoring and not accepting as truth, which it is. THere comes a point when it is not edifying to anyone to pursue a topic with someone. And unless you are prepared to actually look at the many posts that have been given in answer to you, and deal with the issues brought forward, this topic is likely pretty much done for you.