The Noahide covenant [Gen 9:1,11] (Note that baptism was implicit in this covenant .

[Mary]

(08-02-2011 01:25 PM)Ekklesia Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 11:59 PM)Mary Wrote:  Ekklesia brings up a number of points, and I think the central error along with the other errors discussed, which causes confusion and misunderstanding is that BI teaching seems to ignore the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is seen in Ekklesia's comparison of the ark and the flood with baptism.

I missed this comment Mary. It's the first time I've seen this claim.

Have I, at any point, failed to appreciate the resurrection of Christ? I don't think so.

The belief that Christian's are Israel does not deny that Christ's blood is the only way one can be found spotless before God. Believe about what the Sherdherd did to redeem the sheep, is not the same thing as belief about who the flock is today; the two are separate issues.

I remember specifically pointing out that Christ was THE pascal lamb, THE perfect blood sacrifice, and THE Jubilee all in one. Futhermore I have never denied my complete faith in the atoning work of Christ as the means to salvation.

If you have reason to believe I've ignored the resurrection of Jesus Christ, please put forth your evidence, and hold me accountable, otherwise recognize that this claim you've made above, is a false one.

For the record howerver: I believe Christ's death, and resurrection are central to the New Covenant. WRT baptism specifically, entering baptismal water represents death [Rom 6:4][Col 2:12] and coming out of baptismal water represents resurrection into new life, just as exiting Noah's ark represented new life. (None of this contradicts a belief that Christian's are Israelites)

too frequently people get caught up in the 'symbolism', metaphors and signposts/typology; and miss the obvious. The clear fact is, God repented of creating man, and the earth and life were wicked in His eyes and he decided to destroy it all. However, He extended His grace to Noah because of his righteousness - his faith in God- to keep him and his family , and animal families and breeding pairs, out of the flood and safe from death, with the clear goal of sending Noah, his family and the animals out of the ark, to replenish the earth. The Covenant God made once Noah et al left the ark, was not with Noah, but with all mankind. God repeated His covenant with Abraham, to all mankind and fullfilled it, to all mankind, in Jesus Christ. In the story of Noah, it is easy to see that God can extend His grace to a select few - even to one person, but to do that, it means that all except the select, as the Noah story shows, everyone and all other living creatures will die in their sins, and ultimately (as did Noah) the select will die too. But, God in his almighty power, through the gift of His son Jesus, did the dying instead, and not only dying, but coming back to life, so that all who believe, are also reborn in Him, and are a new creature: a child of God. Bloodlines, history and even future, matter not at all, they fall away, when we become part of the family and Kingdom of God.

[Mary]

(09-27-2011 07:48 AM)Mary Wrote:  

(08-02-2011 01:25 PM)Ekklesia Wrote:  

(07-20-2011 11:59 PM)Mary Wrote:  Ekklesia brings up a number of points, and I think the central error along with the other errors discussed, which causes confusion and misunderstanding is that BI teaching seems to ignore the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is seen in Ekklesia's comparison of the ark and the flood with baptism.

I missed this comment Mary. It's the first time I've seen this claim.

Have I, at any point, failed to appreciate the resurrection of Christ? I don't think so.

The belief that Christian's are Israel does not deny that Christ's blood is the only way one can be found spotless before God. Believe about what the Sherdherd did to redeem the sheep, is not the same thing as belief about who the flock is today; the two are separate issues.

I remember specifically pointing out that Christ was THE pascal lamb, THE perfect blood sacrifice, and THE Jubilee all in one. Futhermore I have never denied my complete faith in the atoning work of Christ as the means to salvation.

If you have reason to believe I've ignored the resurrection of Jesus Christ, please put forth your evidence, and hold me accountable, otherwise recognize that this claim you've made above, is a false one.

For the record howerver: I believe Christ's death, and resurrection are central to the New Covenant. WRT baptism specifically, entering baptismal water represents death [Rom 6:4][Col 2:12] and coming out of baptismal water represents resurrection into new life, just as exiting Noah's ark represented new life. (None of this contradicts a belief that Christian's are Israelites)

too frequently people get caught up in the 'symbolism', metaphors and signposts/typology; and miss the obvious. The clear fact is, God repented of creating man, and the earth and life were wicked in His eyes and he decided to destroy it all. However, He extended His grace to Noah because of his righteousness - his faith in God- to keep him and his family , and animal families and breeding pairs, out of the flood and safe from death, with the clear goal of sending Noah, his family and the animals out of the ark, to replenish the earth. The Covenant God made once Noah et al left the ark, was not with Noah, but with all mankind. God repeated His covenant with Abraham, to all mankind and fullfilled it, to all mankind, in Jesus Christ. In the story of Noah, it is easy to see that God can extend His grace to a select few - even to one person, but to do that, it means that all except the select, as the Noah story shows, everyone and all other living creatures will die in their sins, and ultimately (as did Noah) the select will die too. But, God in his almighty power, through the gift of His son Jesus, did the dying instead, and not only dying, but coming back to life, so that all who believe, are also reborn in Him, and are a new creature: a child of God. Bloodlines, history and even future, matter not at all, they fall away, when we become part of the family and Kingdom of God.

John 1:10 - 13
...that was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Eph 1:7-10

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

[Mary]

Ekklesia:

"Have I, at any point, failed to appreciate the resurrection of Christ? I don't think so."

so following on from my responses above, yes, I think Ekklesia and CI/BI do fail to appreciate the resurrection of Christ. The resurrection completes God's promise to all mankind.

John 5: 25 - 49

25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth— those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

[Ekklesia]

(09-30-2011 07:01 PM)Mary Wrote:  so following on from my responses above, yes, I think Ekklesia and CI/BI do fail to appreciate the resurrection of Christ. The resurrection completes God's promise to all mankind.

Mary, I'm glad you admit that it is merely what you think. However, your thoughts are mistaken.

In all that I say, and all that I do, and all that I believe, I profess with my lips, and with my heart that Jesus Christ is Lord!

He reigns at the right hand of God. Son of God and Son of man, he is the ancient of days, the mercy seat, our pascal lamb, creator and restorer of all things, our high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek, our King. It is through the perfect sacrifice of His blood that we are saved before God, according to His true word and faithful obedience unto death.

I further profess that I place my faith in Christ alone, for redemption, salvation, sanctification, and justification before God. I look forward to spending an eternity worship Him, and praising His holy name. My sins, though many, are covered.

Praise the Lord!

(I hope if there was doubt, there is no more!)

[Vic]

(10-12-2011 01:37 AM)Ekklesia Wrote:  

(09-30-2011 07:01 PM)Mary Wrote:  so following on from my responses above, yes, I think Ekklesia and CI/BI do fail to appreciate the resurrection of Christ. The resurrection completes God's promise to all mankind.

Mary, I'm glad you admit that it is merely what you think. However, your thoughts are mistaken.

In all that I say, and all that I do, and all that I believe, I profess with my lips, and with my heart that Jesus Christ is Lord!

He reigns at the right hand of God. Son of God and Son of man, he is the ancient of days, the mercy seat, our pascal lamb, creator and restorer of all things, our high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek, our King. It is through the perfect sacrifice of His blood that we are saved before God, according to His true word and faithful obedience unto death.

I further profess that I place my faith in Christ alone, for redemption, salvation, sanctification, and justification before God. I look forward to spending an eternity worship Him, and praising His holy name. My sins, though many, are covered.

Praise the Lord!

(I hope if there was doubt, there is no more!)

Ekklesia, only God knows hearts and we cannot judge someone's heart. We know, and have seen repeatedly, that many can write statements of faith or appear to proclaim Christ when in fact they are not of Christ. That's something that we know as a warning according to the Scriptures.

2Co 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Ti 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

When evaulating what people claim or present, the whole package has to be evaluated, especially so on the internet where we can only go by what a person presents in writing. And it has to be carefully evaluated.

If I were to be 'clinical' about things, I could actually take your above statement apart with very specific questions and reason for doing so and I would be totally Scriptural in doing so. And no, I won't say what it is that I am seeing in it.

What I am going to say is there is more to declaring Jesus Christ than what you have presented above. It comes down to knowing each by their 'fruit' , and 'sound doctrine' which can stand the test of Scripture. And that Ekklesia is where there is really a problem. If you belong to Christ, it is clear you are not sound in doctrine.

I know, you will say you have done the perfect presentation of your 'Christian Identity is the answer' doctrine here on the forum, and clearly stated you are correct in all your CI doctrine. And yet, it is totally found wanting, Scripturally and factually and repeatedly shown to you as such. You just cannot accept that.

You may be really sincere in your beliefs, but being sincere does not make one right or sound in the faith. Many are sincerely wrong and lost in error. And Christian Identity/British Israel/ Lost Tribes all fall into that pail of error. And sadly so. And you have chosen that doctrine to proclaim, while trying to suggest your CI doctrine is different than all that 'baggage' associated with Identity. The reality is, the fruit of those beliefs leads away from Scriptural Truth and Jesus Christ. Whether your claimed 'different' Christian Identity version, or all the other variations of Christian Identity. It's contrary to Christ and that is the bottom line. I am so reminded of these Scriptures:

Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

Tit 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

Tit 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,