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computerdoc · (This post was last modified: 10-27-2011 02:40 PM by Vic.)

(10-19-2011 09:40 AM)Rose of Shushan Wrote: Computerdoc why are your comments also appearing inside my quote, when you quote my quote, it is making the reading of your comments very awkward.I remember what I wrote so it's ok but whoever follows this thread will be getting confused.Can you please edit the post somehow so it doesn't look like I said the things you were saying, it's very confusing otherwise.

I'll try to answer your questions regardless.
When you were endorsing the heb4christians site I said that "Talmudic interpretations came about much later than Jesus and arose out of the religious system that rejected Him. " in response to that you wrote some questions that included

Quote: Is there only one religious system that rejects Yeshua? Or are we all responsible individually for our attitudes and behaviour?

Is there any one or any group which has a monopoly on the truth about Yeshua or Christianity?

then you included my question about it being appropriate to go to Hindu or Islamic writings in order to better understand the Gospel and responded with

Quote:Was Yeshua Jewish?

Did Christianity come from the Jews first?

If Hinduism was the root of Christianity, YES it would be appropriate. However neither Hinduism or Islam are roots of Christianity, Judaism IS.
I love my messiah. Why would I not want to know more about what it was like for him as a Jew?

You know when you first fall in love? You want to know EVERYTHING about the one you love.
Yes Jesus was jewish and Christianity began in Judaism, however the Talmud wasn't around then.The closest to the Talmudic thinking then would have been the Pharisees and Jesus wasn't really their number one fan, was He?

By studying the religion that arose after He died and the Temple was destroyed, a religion that rejected Him ,you won't get to know more about what it was like for Him as a jew as things changed a lot after the destruction of the Temple and loss of priesthood etc.
You will get to know a lot about Judaism though which is fine and nothing wrong with it however going back to my original point which was the site you recommended as having the true message. It's misleading to include so much Talmud in a site that is supposedly for Christians.

IN answer to your comment above, he wasn't around for the destruction of the temple etc. was he? At least not on earth. He was seated at the right hand of his father as his work was done.

That of course is why the Holy Spirit was poured out to guide us into truth since he was gone. Of course none of us listens perfectly to the promptings of the Holy Spirit but hopefully it is our goal.

Perhaps you need to contact John yourself and ask him the questions you are putting to me. That is always the best course of action is it not?

Sorry about the confusion. I was trying to make it obvious who said what and see the question and answer but due to colors continuing and a few errors you are right, it is very confusing.

I will try not to be so confusing (:-)

Let's talk about the site. Have you ever talked to John Parsons? I contacted him back when we had a problem with a young "rebel" in our church who found stuff online he liked about Jewish roots. I outright asked him about questions I had regarding this individual. Every question I had concerning the Judaic Christian rebel was answered to my satisfaction.

I think John's site is multi-purposed. I believe [my idea not his] that he would like to provide information for Christians about their Jewish roots since it is obvious there is an interest. I KNOW he also has articles which CORRECT false ideas like "going back to the torah once someone is a Christian. I believe also he hopes Jews [most of which are secular] would perhaps become interested and learn something about Christ.

That is my idea after reading many articles and talking to John about my concerns regarding our young rebel.

I sense perhaps an over-reaction which could have occurred for many reasons. I have read some of the individuals who have come out of the HR movement and see their confusion which is natural as some VERY unorthodox [in the sense of normal] teachings are going on. [Excuse my psychological brain from coming to conclusions which may not be real.]

Reactions are great if the truth comes out. But if emotions are allowed to cloud ideas, it may become too foggy to see anything clearly.

I know the truth-giver, the Holy Spirit who guides us [not controls us] into all truth.

God bless you

God bless all you former Messianics who may be confused.

God is not the author of confusion. Keep seeking him as you allow him to unconfuse you.

Go back to the scriptures and read what it says before accepting what any of us can say to you. It is easy for our beliefs and doctrines to cloud our minds at times.

Again God bless you [and hopefully this post will be less confusing.

At one point I started a Jewish Roots googlegroup to give the answers to those who have been confused by HR teachers who have become too spiritually proud to recognize truth. That was a response to all the letters I sent to the young rebel to correct the ideas with which he had been indoctrinated.

Is this less confusing?

I sensed that might be the case that you were part of the movement. It is very natural to over-react when you have been deceived by "nice people". Thank you for your explanation that I see in the next post.

Have you checked out {Links removed--Newbies are NOT allowed to post links as per forum rules. PLease read them if you have not done so--Vic} yet?

I think Joe is quite balanced. You might even want to join an Israel Prayer Watch group, who knows?

Thanks Rose. Hope I was not too harsh. Not meaning to be.

(09-14-2011 10:12 AM)Kalev Wrote: I believe your understanding of the Hebrew Roots movement is skewed by some of the HR teachers you have heard about. It is not about being "Jewish" or mixing Judaism with Christianity. Both religions have altered the Word of God and adopted various forms of pagan worship into their belief system. Never having been Jewish I cannot properly address the pagan worship in that belief system. Having been raised in a Protestant Christian environment I can address that. How many people on this forum have taken a deep and close look at the Christian holidays? Like Christmas and Easter? Both are directly from pagan worship systems, Saturnalia is mithraism and Ishtar is directly from Nimrods Babylon. That in and of itself was enough to chase me out of Christendom. I use two websites as reference points as I have altered my belief in our Creator and His only begotten Son, {Links removed--Newbies are NOT allowed to post links as per forum rules. PLease read them if you have not done so--Vic} , please look into them and try to rethink your opinion of the Hebrew Roots movement.
God bless you, peace and love!

I think you may be over-reacting to inanimate names of days, Kalev.

Were you once a pagan Kalev?

I was. We all were. We were pagans before we believed in Yeshua.

God redeemed us and has no problem redeeming days which have no spirits.

We do not need to over-react to days named BEFORE we existed and most of us did not know about. I don't believe God is up there very concerned about the names of days.

I think he is MORE CONCERNED about HOW we spend our days.

This could be carried so far as to over-react to the name of a person that somehow in the long distant past was a pagan name.

Cannot we along with Paul continue in the race set before us, forgetting what is before.

I think this is good advice from Paul.

"New International Version (©1984)
Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,

New Living Translation (©2007)
No, dear brothers and sisters, I have not achieved it, but I focus on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead,

English Standard Version (©2001)
Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead"

I cannot believe that God is concerned about minutiae when people are going to hell in handbaskets so to speak, when there is a world which needs the light that we have in Christ to shine from every hill we can find.

Let your light shine!

God bless you!
-Computerdoc

(10-19-2011 11:58 AM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:
Quote:Rose, You seem a little over-cautious about studying Judaic roots and I am sure there is a reason for it even if I guessed wrong above.

Charles, I am cautious because I once studied Talmud thinking that I would get a deeper insight into Christ and the First century church.I also thought that since Judaism was the religion of Christ that I would learn all I could about it.
What I found out after spending months and years on it was that Judaism is not the religion Christ practised.First century Judaism was diverse but certainly not what Judaism evolved to in subsequent centuries.
There was a time when I also tried to keep as much of the Mosaic Law as I could and for a while tried to honour the Sabbath by not cooking,driving etc.I also threw away all my trousers :D and tried to dress modestly the rabbinic way. Charles I spent many years in this and then slowly but surely realised how what I was doing was alienating me from Christ.It has been a wonderful journey in opening my eyes to so many things and now I do try to warn people of how useless it is to go down that road.
Hope you can understand where I'm coming from a bit better ,Charles.

Thank you Rose, I suspected as much.

I understand. I know that you are over-cautious because you have been there and want to help prevent others from having the confusion that you had.

God bless you.

I have to admit I am still a bit confused about how my comments are appearing. I may just have figured it out.
OK.