Hebrew4Christians, praying for Israel, Palestinians, etc

[Vic]

(10-31-2011 01:00 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:  Great post Vic!! I couldn't agree more with everything that you said!

[Mary]

(10-31-2011 01:00 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:  Great post Vic!! I couldn't agree more with everything that you said!

[Rose of Shushan]

Quote:Yes very familiar with this. Why did you omit the efforts of people and nations to give the Jewish people a homeland because in every land they have lived they have been persecuted?

Charles why would I need to mention those efforts. However since you mention it, what does it have to do with Palestinians? Why should they have ceded where they were living just because jews were being persecuted everywhere.. Was it their fault? It was USA, England and others who denied jews the right to safely harbour in their respective countries.So why put the onus on the Palestinians to give up their homeland for them? What did it have to do with the Palestinians Charles? Why are they paying the price for what others did to the jewish people during the Holocaust times?

Quote:To equate the "palestinians" with Israel is ludicrous to say the least. I see you totally omitting any problems caused by the Palestinians and terrorists and only mentioning a few problems caused by overzealous zionists.

I am not sure in what sense you mean that equating Israel with Palestinians is ludicrous? Can you please explain further?
As to problems there are many many others that I could mention so there are not just a few caused by overzealousness.

Quote:Is that balanced to equate the terrorism of PLO, Fatah and Hamas with Israel trying to leave peacefully and allowing other faiths to live peacefully in Israel?

Well for one Israel is not allowing the Palestinians to live peacefully in Israel.Those that left in 1948,for whatever reason are not allowed the right of return so no they are not being allowed to live peacefully in Israel.
What is in operation is a system that some have likened to apartheid.

Quote:You seem to think that the state of Israel and Jews are equally if not worse than those who call themselves Palestinians.

Why do you insist on labeling one side worse than the other. As peacemakers do you not think that we should look as all peoples as equals and not favour one side over the other? God is not a respector of persons, is He? Are we not all His children and product of His creation? Aren’t we meant to preach the Gospel to all men? Why then are you implying that it's somehow bad to regard Palestinians and Israelis as equal.
Since you speak a lot of this supposed equality could you elaborate a little because I don't understand what you mean too well when you refer to equality.

Quote:You suggested I read more. However I am suggesting that you do the same. Watch youtube videos of children's programs on palestinian tv and what they say about Jews and Israel. However as a group, Israel and Jewish children are NOT taught to hate Palestinians. Some may as it is the palestinians who have killed many people in Israel and many families are missing someone because of the constant terrorism.

I have watched videos of Palestinian children and a lot of the times I don't watch things that I see linked to because I don't want to end up upset. Palestinian children who have nightmares about being taken away in the middle of the night by Israelis. Or those who can't sleep missing their brothers and hoping they will not suffer the same fate as their brothers who went away one day to throw some stones and never returned.

You say the Palestinians have killed many people in Israel, well let's have a look at some facts.Since Sept 20 2000, 124 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1463 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis. What do you think of those figures Charles? The sources of these figures with ongoing updates with names and details of victims can be found at http://rememberthesechildren.org/remember2000.html

According to Catherine Cook, media coordinator at the Middle East Research and Information Project “The majority of these [Palestinian] children were killed and injured while going about normal daily activities, such as going to school, playing, shopping, or simply being in their homes. Sixty-four percent of children killed during the first six months of 2003 died as a result of Israeli air and ground attacks, or from indiscriminate fire from Israeli soldiers.”

Quote:Why do you always seem to find something wrong with the Jews or Israel every time somone tells you about problems caused by palestinians?

I do not suppose I will get an answer.

Well, we have only discussed it here and it's not that I find something wrong with the jews or Israel it is that I disagree with whatever you said regarding Palestinians and muslims. You seem to be promoting stereotypes and propaganda and what I try to do is counter it with facts or a different way of looking at it. There is never just one side to a story is there?
You keep referring me to you-tube videos and I could also do the same.There are many many videos out there of cruelty being inflicted on Palestinians, maybe you could try looking at those for a change. Some things can be faked but others can't. I'm sure you would come to see that they too are suffering and suffering more in many ways.

As believers I don't believe we are called to take sides, as I have said many times.We should support both since we love both Israelis and Palestinians.
Have a look at this video when you have time.Its 45 minutes long and it's about a group of young Arab and Jewish children who study together in a bilingual school program in Israel. There you can get a more realistic views of what families are up against from both sides.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev9rfThkmXM


I'd also like to share with you an article that appeared in Ynet written by Amaya Galili from the organisation Zochrot. http://www.zochrot.org/en
She is jewish but yet strives for a solution that will take into account both sides.So that Israel would be a place where truly arabs and jews can truly live together at peace.She isn't christian Charles,or at least not that I know of, she is Israeli and lives right in the middle of the conflict but she shows the qualities that Jesus is surely proud of.And she does this by recognising the Palestians rights and grieviances.She doesn't demean or stereotype them in anyway. If you read the article maybe you see what I am talking about.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/dirtyword.html

[Vic]

So Charles, because it's coming through that you have a real anti-muslim people sentiment--which incidentally covers believers of it through all races---or is it just arab/palistinians?-- and not just being in disagreement with specific actions by some, with which we of course would deplore such as terrorism from any group, I am wondering:

Do you believe that Muslims should be told of salvation through Jesus CHrist and His love and salvation offered to all people?

If so, how would you approach any Muslim based on what is coming across here from you? or do you think that is something you would never share with any Muslim directly?

Do you think that All muslims specifically hate you and/or any 'Christians' or any and all other people, including all Jews?

Are there differences in levels of rejection of Jesus Christ depending who the person is and what their beliefs are at the time of that rejection? Does God view people as different and with different levels of being sinners according to race or prior religious beliefs, I guess would sum it up? In other words is God a respector of persons on these issues?

Can you provide some Scriptures to support your stand, regardless of what it is, in answer to the above questions?

[Vic]

Charles, I see you have kind of done like sari and company and started a blog with my website name in it. seek-god-forum...

How very 'Christian' and above board of you to deal like that, rather than dialoguing here and answering the posts directed to you that were answers to your posts. And to imply Rose is anti-semitic even though she is Jewish-as she has stated to you. How thoroughly "Christian" and "honest" in your evaluations.

Not to worry, Charles, it is a very common thing to do what you are doing.

INcluding your very statement at the top of your blog:

Quote:This site is to allow photos and links to evidences of the ideas presented to SeekGod.ca members which are not allowed there.

You are kidding, right Charles? Because we have a forum rule that ALL MEMBERS MUST ABIDE THAT NO LINKS OR SPAMMING ALLOWED--NO LINKS TO OTHER WEBSITES INCLUDING YOUR OWN FOR 50 POSTS--and which YOU repeatedly broke that rule. You even posted your commercial sites. THAT IS HARDLY not allowing information and you should be ashamed of yourself for attempting to mislead people like that. There's absolutley no excuse for what you have done and the deliberately inaccurate statements you have made.

Just for your info, I never passed judgment on anyone in my research, as you have so 'nicely' stated and judged. I researched and analyzed the DOCTRINE and promotion of those things mentioned to see if they could stand the test of Scripture. Which we are ALL called to do. It's YOU, Charles, that suggests all those 'groups' comprised of individual people are not of Christ. That's your conclusion--not mine.

But oh well, don't let a few facts and Scriptures stand in your way and judgments.

[YYZ Skinhead]

It's hard to believe that presumed adults whose beliefs are shown here to be false, will go to the trouble to set up their own sites for the exclusive purpose of slamming this one. I used to do that to people I didn't like, but I grew up. It's getting petty revenge (they have been shown what they know is true but don't want to lose the schoolyard fight), which Christians are forbidden to do, anyhow.

[Vic]

(11-02-2011 05:07 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote:  It's hard to believe that presumed adults whose beliefs are shown here to be false, will go to the trouble to set up their own sites for the exclusive purpose of slamming this one. I used to do that to people I didn't like, but I grew up. It's getting petty revenge (they have been shown what they know is true but don't want to lose the schoolyard fight), which Christians are forbidden to do, anyhow.

So glad you said you 'used to do that". That tells me how much you have been growing in Christ. Good for you, my friend.

Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
Col 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
Col 1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

[Rose of Shushan]

YYZ, I don't know why he had to set up a blog to slam us.He could have carried on posting here as he had been doing.If he is annoyed because he cannot post links then it shows that he is not willing to wait the 50 posts in order to be able to do so.The 50 post rule is one that applies to everyone and it avoids us being over run with spammers. Seeing as a lot of the questions that had been put to him involved Scripture, one might think he wouldn't need to resort to links to do respond and dialogue at least for those.
All this leads me to wonder how sincere is his motive.

Charles, if you are reading this,I'd just like to say that if we are all christians surely we should be able to discuss this amicably without being forced into a situation where its a you against us scenario.