Muslims: Christians fearing & hating Muslims & Islam's "religion of hate"...

[Vic]

Promoting hate and fear of Muslims...
Instead of showing the love of Jesus.

We've all heard and seen the rhetoric, which goes something like this.

They're muslims, they're terrorists.
They're arabs, they are evil terrorists and hate everyone.
Islam is a religion of hate that means to kill all the infidels, which means everyone outside their religion.
Arabs hate Jews and/or Christians; All Arabs are Muslims and therefore all Muslims hate Jews and/or Christians.
Muslims need to be expelled from ? nation because they are going to kill us all.

And those ideas and similar are being propagated by those calling themselves Christians.

Depending on source, over 60% of Muslims are Asian; about 22% + are in Arab countries, roughly 12% Sub-Sahara African; 5% Eastern Europe and minorities throughout the rest of world including in 'the west'. The largest community is in Indonesia. The Islam practiced in Indonesia is different than the Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia, which is different from that in Palestine, Iran, or Morocco, etc. The average Muslim is somewhat like the average Christian or Jew. They know enough to call themselves Muslims, but basically want to take care of their families, and hope to live a good comfortable life. This isn't said as a putdown, but many people hold 'culture' beliefs rather than heart and soul beliefs of their respective 'religion.' Individuals can become Muslim by saying two sentences. It's entirely different than many other religions in that respect.

If one wants to comprehend how 'the world' views one another---and unfortunately I have seen Christians use some of the slurs-- one can view a horrible collection of slurs against every type/country/race/religion. It's at The Racial Slur Database. And no, I am NOT stating all people say those horrible things nor are all prejudiced. However, hate comes in various forms and levels. And sometimes it's subtle. But most times it's not. And we can look at the political stance for what constitutes hate speech by country, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech

For Christians we have these Scriptures to remind us we are not be speaking or thinking in those ways:

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

According to both the Hebrew Bible and the Quran, Abraham is the forefather of many tribes, including the Ishmaelites, Israelites, Midianites and Edomites. Abraham was a descendant of Noah's son, Shem. In Islamic and Jewish traditions, Abraham is referred to as "our Father". In Islamic tradition, Abraham is considered a prophet of Islam, the ancestor of Muhammad, through his firstborn son, Ishmael whose mother’s name is nowhere mentioned in the Quran. In Jewish tradition, Abraham is also the father of the Israelites through his second born child, Isaac whose mother was Sarah. The mother of his firstborn son, Ishmael, is shown to be Hagar, Sarah’s Egyptian handmaiden.

Islam believes that Ishmael, the father of the Arab world, not Isaac, received the promise from God through Abraham, and that Muhammed descended from him. Aside from political propaganda and manipulation, this helps to explain why some Arab Muslims feel that their claim to the Holy Land is a God-given right. Israel believes that the promise came through Abraham to Isaac, and the land was promised to Israel, and most Christians would agree. [Genesis 15:18-21; 21; 28:13; Exodus 23:31; Deuteronomy 1:8] Incidently, the list of groups and cities to be overcome when they took possession of the land, included the Jebusites, who occupied the city of Jebus which later became Jerusalem.

Most Muslims know and recognise that Israel had claim to the 'Holy Land' and Jerusalem, and in early centuries tried to be at peace with Israel by changing from praying towards Mecca to Jerusalem. When that was rebuffed by the Jews, they returned to their practice of facing Mecca and there is no mention of Jerusalem as a religious site in the Quran.

Christian's also believe God's promise to Abraham would be fulfilled, in its entirety, through Jesus Christ, the Seed, who provides the opportunity for all mankind to know Him through the same covenant that was offered to Abraham and all of his people.

Rom 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Rom 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Israel has in fact historically and Scripturally had full possession of the promised land. [Deuteronomy 1:8; Joshua 21:1-43-45; Psalm 44:3; Nehemiah 9:7-22,23, 24-38;] After the first Jewish captivity in Babylon about 600 B.C. the Persian leader Cyrus allowed the Jewish people to return to rebuild Jerusalem and reestablish their religion. The Maccabean victory over the kingdoms of the Caliphates from Egypt and the Ptolemies from Syria who were both wanting control of Jerusalem, resulted in an autonomous Jewish state in the 2nd century before Christ, which lasted about 125 years. In 63 B.C. Roman General Pompey conquered the Jewish nation yet again.

Both Palestinian Arabs and Jews lived as neighbours under the Ottoman dynasty of Turkey, for many years until it collapsed. Jews and Arabs were in fact living in Palestine as the Sultans' subjects. After 1895 the Zionist movement was born and after trying to buy the Palistinian land from the Sultan, who refused, the plan for Israel's own land continued. Apparently they thought the Palestinian Arabs would welcome them as landowners, as they would still be tenants, only in Israel. Early Zionists forgot to ask them what they thought or wanted. After the death and collapse of the Sultan's empire, the land was divied between the British and French. The British in fact declared about 80% of Palestine--which was merely the name the Promised Land was called at that time, to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and by 1937 Peel Commission, Palestine Arabs and Jews were called to split the remaining 20% of the land. The Jews said yes, the Arab Palestinians said no. By 1947 the United Nations voted for the partition of the land and Israel declared itself a nation on May 15, 1948 and 5 hours later the Arab nations attacked. And the rest is history.

When the borders went up which made Israel, and enforced not only inside the borders but all neighbouring towns and land outside of that border, people who had lived in peace no longer were to be friends or neighbours. It became a them or us situation. Sadly the estimate is between 250,000-300,000 Palestinians were expelled from their prior homes.

I couldn't help but think that Israel must have relived the horror and grief of their own expulsions from countries or cities or towns, over the centuries, as they enforced their hold on the 'promised land.' I am sure many had or have deep regrets for the loss of friendships and peaceful co-existance with neighbours some may have known for many years. We know there is now (and likely then) division of thought amongst fellow Jews throughout the world, including within Israel, who view the situation with Palestine as intolerable, and posit for peace, right of return for Palestinians and so on. Just as there is likely disagreement amongst Muslims about all the fighting and wars.

Islam has been a force to be reckoned with for many centuries, and there were many wars because of it. If one looks at the Scriptures and history, when God called Jacob, Israel became an incredible force to be reckoned with as well. They were no slouches at conquering and destroying their enemies as God called them to. They are not marshmallows today in their ability to be at war, defend and be on the offensive over the land that has caused so much turmoil and death.

When reviewing the events since 1948, I was saddened by the loss of life, families destroyed, children becoming orphans, because of lack of love and care for others. The ensuing battles triggered emotional and I suppose hate filled responses on all sides. I personally believe that isn't what God wanted for humanity, to fight and kill one another. But we see right from Cain killing Abel, bloodshed is part of humanity, which seems almost a contradictory term.

There seems to be no 'winners' in any war or fightings, regardless of the 'prize'. Regardless of the perceived victories I believe there is a terrible loss spiritually and emotionally when fightings, killings and wars take place. I can't imagine raising our children to only know the sounds of violence and war, whether steady or intermittent. To always be in a state of wondering if more violence will take place that day or night and who might be killed of friends or family. Who might be killed in the 'enemies' camp. Will it matter to anyone on the striking side, if it's soldiers, civilians or children? Would the wounds and losses of the afflicted matter to those on either side of the battles?

From a Christian perspective I simply cannot fathom that anything in this world would have us killing others for it. I would rather die myself than kill someone else. I don't know how people do it.

The only time I can equate what it would take to kill someone was a moment in time when I was so enraged with some people, that I honestly had the feeling I could kill them if they walked through our door, many years ago, and I am so thankful God protected me from those horrible feelings consuming me, and forgave me for that. And I was able to forgive those people for what they had done. It was absolutely a horrible feeling that seemed to consume me momentarily. It removed all sense of reason and logic, and was total raw and hate filled emotion with complete removal of love. I can't imagine living like that moment to moment. And I think maybe that feeling is what drives many, not all, in their passion for war and fightings. I am so glad that in Christ we are delivered from those passions and instead can have peace and joy and love for others even in the midst of adversity.

If one looks historically, there have been wars, retaliations and actions by all nations big and small throughout history against others. Most often in the name of their religion and also politics. Christianity, and I firmly maintain what is labeled Christian is not part of Christ in these actions and many more,- with the deplorable Inquisition and so on. Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world and if it was, then would his servants fight. That is not what we are called to.

James addressed the issue of wars and fightings and said this:

Jas 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
Jas 4:2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Jas 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Jas 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
Jas 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.

One of the issues with Islam is that there are varied levels of committment to it. Just like in Christianity and Judaism and many other religious beliefs. There are varied beliefs and levels of committment and interpretation. We've seen with horror the stories of suicide bombers, family disputes where daughters, sisters and or wives are murdered by Muslim men for their amily "honor"; Muslims rioting at what seems the slighest provocation----and that is not found just among Muslims if I might be so bold; Murdering Christians and Jews and others, kidnapping; burning girls schools; stoning rape victims for adultery; the practice of mutilating the genitals of little girls; and I am sure many other documented practices including ongoing warring factions, within their own groups who vary in beliefs as well those who hate 'America', the west etc.

All those things have happened. Because of their interpretations and zeal for "Allah" and Sharia law. The whole 'religion of hate' label at those times appears accurate. But does it apply to all Muslims? All Arabs? All ? We have seen Muslims killing Muslims. In Algeria, Muslims killed more than 100,000 Muslims. Muslims killed by Muslims. The war between Iraq and Iran which comprised about ten years of killing, which resulted in about 2,000,000 dying. Both Iraq and Iran are Islamic; Muslims killing Muslims.

Some suggest the moderate Muslims should speak up and condemn those terrorist acts if they don't agree with them or the associated behaviors. An interesting thought when in Saudi Arabia for example, it is written in their law that there can be no different interpretation that what the state declares---

Quote:"The spreading of Muslim teachings not in conformance with the officially accepted interpretation of Islam is prohibited. Writers and other individuals who publicly criticize this interpretation, including both those who advocate a stricter interpretation and those who favor a more derate interpretation than the government's, reportedly have been imprisoned and faced other reprisals."

Those reprisals used to include certain death. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_...udi_Arabia

One would have to be feeling very brave to risk that type of reprisal, when the state and religion are the same. There are many Muslims who may remain silent and are accused of then being in agreement with terrorism etc. But I think that's an unfair broad statement. Many may remain silent, but many also have left their families and countries and found more peaceful existence in other countries, and the 'west'. Incidentally, the West or America or Canada or Britian--does not equal those 'countries' being Christian or living for Christ. They are merely different countries, different culturally than Muslim or Hindi or Judaism, Shinto or Buddhist, etc. It's the individual people and government that determine the culture and what is acceptable or not in that society.

Yes I know, some are going to say that they are all plants to lull us into allowing their 'religion of hate' to be spread. Does that mean that one cannot leave being a Muslim also? Or change their beliefs? Ever? So are the ones speaking about leaving Islam and becoming Christian's, are they just plants also, always, or just some of them or all of them? Once a Muslim always a Muslim? And therefore a terrorist? Or is it once an Arab therefore a Muslim, therefore, always a terrorist?

It's rather ironic in protesting differences of belief in that arena in North America, when children, in particularly in public schools, are being given the smorgasbord of all beliefs to pick and choose from, as their 'right' to choose.

Do we have examples of differences of belief in Christianity and under the label of Christianity when it is not? Absolutely. Do we have examples of wicked and evil happening under the label of it being Christian? Absolutely. Killing and destroying in the name of God when it was not for Him at all? Absolutely.

Could true Christians allow or participate in the Inquisition and allow it to continue as it did? Fear of reprisal or death or imprisonment caused silence perhaps? How about the Crusades, blessed by the Pope and Catholic Church, which started with fighting Muslims--which they called infidels, ironically. 'The Just War", as it was dubbed, allowed for knights to believe they would go directly to heaven if they retook Jerusalem. When the crusades were 'done' the passion continued and they dealt with those outside agreement with the Catholic Church including some factions of Christians, as well as many Jews. All under the false assumption that is what Christ was about.

The reformation was viewed as Christians killing 'Christians'. And the Holocaust--could true Christians really applaud that? No. It's that simple. Even fear of death could not have caused that to not be openly condemned for the atrocity it was. And that those under the label of Christian participated and in particular cases helped formulate and enact the 'final solution' shows that person was not of Christ. It is so totally against what Jesus taught and what true Christians believe. For many who fought in WW2, they did so because of knowing what was taking place was totally wrong, and most weren't even Christians.

Do we see differences of belief within Judaism? Totally. From atheists to ultra-orthodox to reform and all that's in between. That means different interpretations in beliefs and understandings. Historically, and Scripturally, for many centures Israel was unrivaled when they were obedient to what God called them to in overcoming their enemies. One can only marvel at the conquests that took place. David, Joshua, etc., it's quite literally amazing. In the New Testament era and prior to that, we also saw Jews fighting the Syrians, and then fighting and killing fellow Jews, over beliefs. We saw the killing of Christians during the Roman -Persian wars, etc. We have seen in the NT, Jews in their zeal stoning fellow Jews who they believed blasphemed God, and we saw the expulsion of Christians -that is, Jews who believed Christ --from the synagogues and many had to flee. Paul was beaten many times and imprisoned as were many other believers in Christ. Israel is no different than others in having feelings of acceptance, or rejection, love or hate of others and heartfelt beliefs.

I think if we look at every country, nation, tribe and religion we can see much hate and harm is done in the name of religion (and politics which is an extension of beliefs, regardless how corrupt). Jesus Christ taught those who believe Him, to love others and specifically to love those who hate us. He said to love not hate, kill, or murder in His name.

1Pe 2:19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
1Pe 2:20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
1Pe 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

We have Muslim friends, just as we have Jewish friends. I worked with them in a hospital for a time. They were kind and compassionate to the patients. We became friends and talked many times. The one couple was more of a support and practical help when our baby died than many Christians we had known for years. I babysat for them at times. They and the other couple
welcomed us into their homes, and we visited and talked. Including about our different beliefs. They are as individual as you or I. They had adapted to our country of Canada, and 'western' culture', yet were still Muslim in faith. When their families visited from overseas we met them and visited with them, despite a slight language barrier. You see, not all Muslims hate, but rather want others to believe what they do---just like Christians, and other religions, because they believe their beliefs are true. Just as we do. Does that mean we agree----absolutely not. Does it mean we can have opportunity to share Christ's love with and for them? Totally and absolutely because despite what some declare about this hated religion of hate, Jesus died for them also.

Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Tit 3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
Tit 3:2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
Tit 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
1Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
1Jn 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

This whole attitude of Muslims are all terrorists and going to kill us all. What if that were true, and was the role some will play in the end times scenarios, which those same people who are so rabidly afraid of them, also proclaim as happening?

Are Christians so afraid and lacking in faith and love of Christ, which should translate to love of others despite how they view us, and including those who would proclaim themselves our enemies, that they have forgotten what Christ said?

Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

We are not to fear death or persecution --something which many are fearing in their adovocacy of hate and fear of Muslims...and at times also hate of Jews...because to fear is not of God just as to promote hate for others is not of God. Christ did not call us to have a spirit of fear.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mat 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
Mat 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Mat 10:31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
2Ti 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

It's about serving Christ regardless how difficult things are around us. Whether at peace or persecuted for His names sake.

1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

2Th 1:2 Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 1:3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2Th 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
2Th 1:12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Mat 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Mat 4:24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
Mat 4:25 And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.
Mat 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

Jesus was speaking to those who believed Him, including Jews, when He taught the Sermon on the mount:

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Luk 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
Luk 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Luk 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
Luk 6:29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
Luk 6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
Luk 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
Luk 6:34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

So what do Muslims know about Jesus and what we Christians believe, aside from those 'Christians' who call them hate filled and terrorists? And what do they believe about Jesus?

[rmorgan]

I don't think it is fair for Christians to see Muslims like this considering that they are coming from different denominations of belief. Though you can't really take that away from them as most extremists come from that side. But considering that they are extremists, that means that they are not bound by what the regular teachings uphold. And there could very well be Christians practicing extremes as well.

[JadeII]

Howdy Vic:

Great post, and I would like to answer your questions regarding Islam, it's belief in Christ based upon the Quran and Hadith.

The Hadiths are important books in Islam and were assembled during the 8th and 9th century. The Hadiths pertains to Islamic law, its history, and interpretations of selected sayings from the Quran. There are 2 Hadiths, one for the Sunnis, the other for Shias, this is important because they do not agree with one another as to certain interpretations from the Quran. The 2 major factions in Islam are Sunni and Shia.

The Quran teaches that Jesus Christ was a prophet, yet human and with a sin nature. In comparison Moslems will say that Muhammad was human but without sin. Interestingly, nowhere in the Quran does it state that he was sinless; although there is a contradiction on this issue because a Hadith does state he was sinless.

Although Muhammad was not crucified for sins, they believe he ascended to Paradise. Hence Islam teaches that Christ did not die on the cross for forgiveness of sin, come from God, nor ascended into Heaven. Moslems don't believe in Christ's deity nor virgin birth, yet in earlier versions of the Quran, it does state His virgin birth.[/size][/font]

They believe that the Bible is not the Word of God nor as reliable as the Quran. Some interpretations of the Quran say otherwise. There does seem to be contradictions between the Quran and Hadith as it pertain to Jewish and Christians faith.

I hope it is okay to mention but Dr. Robert Morey has written a few books about Islamic faith and it's comparison to Christianity. They are informative and easy to read.

Lord's Blessing,
JadeII

[Vic]

Thank you for that information, Jade. The muslims we know personally and ones we have slight interaction with are very different.

ON your last post, I decided to move it to a new thread in the General Discussion section, under The Christian Life.

Dealing with loss and grief and living with peace and joy
http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=932

I think it should prove an interesting discussion. Newbies are allowed to start threads in the General discussion section, so if you were wanting to discuss a Scripture as you had mentioned, that General discussion section would be the place to do it.

[Lois]

When I moved back to Indiana I googled churches to see if it might be possible to find a church I could attend here.
I found an independent Baptist church that I thought looked promising. They had sermons that could be listened to online on their site so I started listening to some they had on the end times and the Antichrist.
It turned out to be like serpent seed doctrine but with a Muslim twist.
I was intrigued. It was very thorough in connecting the dots.

The guy spoke about how the Antichrist would be Muslim, how the Muslims are the literal offspring of the devil and he pointed out how many mosques are popping up everywhere..and how it's all in preparation for the coming Muslim antichrist.(Of course he made it sound more convincing than I am.)
I thought WOW, this breeds a whole nother level of hatred towards a group of people.

I could see where people could be seduced by this teaching in light of terrorist attacks and such but the major flaw in the theory is that feminist American women are not going to be subjugated to the Quran.
They would have to submit to their husbands and wear burkas, not gonna happen.

But anyway, when I listened to this stuff I thought this is going fuel hate crimes against Muslims. It's terrible.