Swedenborgism

[Vic]

I think we likely won't need further quotes, although discussing what's here Scripturally would be alright. It's very obvious he was deceived and caught up in deception and demonic. That people do not see that God already gave us His eye witnesses, commandments and teachings via the prophets, apostles and Christ Himself is sad, but very much warned about. These people that draw their doctrine from such sources are fully deceived and not knowing the Scriptures and worst, are in leadership positions and leading others astray with their folly.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Ti 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Col 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Deu 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[Lois]

I thought I would add a link to this thread on Rick Warren because it also mentions Swedenborg

http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=755

[mjmselim]

(07-18-2012 04:08 PM)Vic Wrote:  I think we likely won't need further quotes, although discussing what's here Scripturally would be alright. It's very obvious he was deceived and caught up in deception and demonic. That people do not see that God already gave us His eye witnesses, commandments and teachings via the prophets, apostles and Christ Himself is sad, but very much warned about. These people that draw their doctrine from such sources are fully deceived and not knowing the Scriptures and worst, are in leadership positions and leading others astray with their folly.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Ti 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Col 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Deu 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Accepted, and perhaps an answer to prayer. This is my third week battling pneumonia, which appears to have been won save the side effects of the meds seems like death. I did desire to share four illustrations in the course of the posts on this thread, and with your kindness let me do this as my exit from active participation unless I find myself addressed.
There are five men or cases that help understand and evaluate certain spirits and cases: Saul of the Old Testament and Paul of the New; Alexander Cruden and Charles Finney, and lastly Kenneth Copeland and his Ministry. ( I must needs divide this post in two parts, Part I.)

1. Ken Copeland: The week before I took sick, while reflecting on how to posts and what to posts on Swedenborg, I was in a thrift store looking for give away Bibles and computer parts and such, which has been my habit for over forty years, just going in and taking a few minutes to see and find. I came upon a new CD album titled "2005 Great Lakes Prosperity Overflow Convention August 22-27". It was marked for $5.00 dollars; I checked and all 30 CDs were there and apparently never removed. I thought of SeekGod.ca and the research articles I had been reading on the Charismatics, New Age, etc. I dealt with the Lord and complained that I would subject myself to some 40 hours of mental torment, and invasion on my goal of going through Scripture twice a month in two languages. Reluctant to waste five bucks I continued to finish my quick visit. While walking out I noticed the sign said half-price day, and I inquired and it was so. I went back and bought the CD Album. That week, in 4 days, I listened and learnt certain things relative to the issues.
I discovered that this man and his wife has a spiritual history as we all do, that all the other speakers, 6 men. of this convention were in deference to him as the prophet and seer of a new movement. The messages revealed that Copeland followed Oral Roberts and Ken "Daddy" Hagin, who followed EW Kenyon. That from a spiritual poverty he moved up to spiritual prosperity; from back-country Pentecostal churches to mega-churches and ministries spanning the globe; that certain doctrines are repeated by every speaker and comes out of every portion of scripture they preach from or interpret; that faithministries, word-ministries, and such are the core of there focus; that they all have countlessexamples of the evidences
and they think proof of God's approval of most of their ministries. They speak of others of settling for pauper Christianity, preaching half-gospel and part-truth, of unbelief in healings and miracles, and many such things . They boast and party that they have the "rhema"-word and the Spirit that does something. They display their blessings of wealth and prosperity, speaking of Christians all need to be at least millionaires, we should have many billionaires, and yes lots of trillionaires...... All in all the conference theme was simplistic enough, good laughs at times, lots of needless words and muddled doctrine, and too much self and me. I rate Gloria more sober than the men. Copeland draws more from himself then Scripture. In forty years Copeland Ministries has gone from little churches and deeds to mega-global network that grows exponentially daily, as of the conference the foreign countries and prison ministries are being added. I leave out the updates on all the monies that pass through their Great House.

2. Charles Finney: In my third and fourth year in Christ, while visiting the Northern Baptists, being unwelcomed in the Southern Baptists camps, I was encouraged to read Finney's Autobiography and Lectures on Revival. I was impressed and pleased with his godly path and his rise to Christian fame. But when I came to his last Boston revival tours in 1843-1844 I was greatly surprised and blessed. He recounted his previous labors and its success among the Millerites and Mr. Miller himself, and the new formation of Adventist soon to be 7th Day Adventists. Then he discovered that the Unitarians were gaining strongholds in those parts and changing the nature of the conflict and message. But that is not to the point. I was struck at his personal revelation or overturning of his spiritual stat and relationship to the Lord. It may be found in chapter 27 "Another Winter in Boston", I give only those things that took me away in spirit. He relates that the Lord thoroughly overhauled his soul, a fresh baptism of the Sprit; in much prayer, especially of personal holiness; of the state of the church lacking the power of God; weakness or orthodoxy in Boston, weakness of faith and outreach;, no progress for the gospel. Limiting himself to preaching he resigned himself to his room at all other times to pray and search the Scriptures, reading Genesis through Revelation, and God meeting him with new light and life; this continued into weeks and months. He went through immense internal struggle between himself and God, between ministry and tjhe Lord, between all or Christ. He eventually came through that time with a new foundation and confidence and relationship that eclipse all his former life and ministry, resting in the will and peace of God in Christ and not in himself. His preaching began to change, and he tried to impart this new full and present salvation to the people, but he soon discovered they could not understand, nor did they thirst or hunger for so great a salvation and revelation of a Perfect Christ satisfying our every need and want. He concludes few will see most won't, and they want only of a Savior for sins and not Christ as All.. The rest you can read.

3. Alexander Cruden: Contemporary to Swedenborg and many of the 18th century, of which this thread concerns, Cruden is a case of gentle and good insanity, Christian insanity in a good sense. In his early twenties the malady that was to remain all his life became evident. I used his concordance as my first Bible help, and in a an edition in small print on Bible paper I carried it with my Bible for three years. I often read and thought of his insanity. How plagued with such illness he moved through life trying to prove God's will for him; at times silly and whimsical, self-seeking, high-minded, yet with a simplicity and Christian grace that made many at ease that he was harmless. He created a concordance by his 36th year and perfected it till his death, he labored in classics and other printing jobs; several times confined to the Asylum, sought its reform and humane treatment of inmates and patients. But the most peculiar of his ways that touched me as a young Christian was the care for the helpless and poor; and though he impoverished himself through his labors on his Concordance and other good works, yet he never complained of unrequited promises from the Throne or Parliament. He made himself the Corrector and Messenger of God to change England for the better. His last great act of love shows his type of insanity: A woman of the street accosted him one eve, he tried to persuade her to abandoned such a sinful and unhappy life, she replied she would if she could, but her poverty left her no choice, since no man will hire her for a reputable job. He asked her to return tomorrow if she was serious to change. She returned to his doorsteps and he hired her as his maid which she remained in his service till his death, faithful and reformed by love. She found him on his last morning, in his closest door closed, knelling by his chair, hands folded in prayer, dead. He left his small wealth to distant family and institutions for the poor and needy.

---

(Part II)
4. Saul the King and Paul the Apostle:

SAUL: 1Sa 8:6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.......2Sa 1:27 How are the mighty fallen, and the weapons of war perished!"

PAUL:: 2Co 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.2Co 12:5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.2Co 12:6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but [now] I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me [to be], or [that] he heareth of me.2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.2Co 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong........

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,2Th :10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Vic]

I am finding your post a little confusing mj. I need you to clarify or tie together the stuff you have posted. The Scripture postings are not formatted correctly and I am thinking need to be deleted. Perhaps you could give me the passage references and I could just put that in for you, with what you are trying to parallel to Swedenborg and what you mean.
Thank you.

[mjmselim]

(07-24-2012 05:52 PM)Vic Wrote:  I am finding your post a little confusing mj. I need you to clarify or tie together the stuff you have posted. The Scripture postings are not formatted correctly and I am thinking need to be deleted. Perhaps you could give me the passage references and I could just put that in for you, with what you are trying to parallel to Swedenborg and what you mean.
Thank you.

I'll try.

1. Swedenborg as a spirit moving in much of spiritualism and spiritism, new age, Christian neo-Gnosticism, and much more presents to us a distinct and in some ways unique test case of the Christian being distracted and deceived and in the end subversive to God's Christ. My own struggle with him compelled me to share when and where opportunity demanded. And I do not wish to pass on trivial judgment but well considered examination and years of reflection, I desired to briefly present a major personality in a very subscribed manner.

2. The examples I posted earlier are examples of what I deem Swedenborg's circumstance. That he like we as a man was subject to all our common limits and bounds. His lost of his mother at nine, a step-mother not so moral or reasonable added to his sorrows; his unhappy experience in church-school turned him away from truth; his father religious professionalism and aspirations for greatness instilled unhealthy seeds in his soul and spirit. His keen mind led his heart to stray afar and mingled with the movers of his age. The superstition of several generations in his family produced in Swedenborg its full harvest. In his mid-fifties he had nervous breakdowns, leading to complete insanity. His madness was by nature a religious insanity. His conversion was real and genuine but in secret and isolation, which the enemy found ready to hand in distorting faith and hope and love and grace and truth. And many other things.

3. The insanity was not unlike other spiritual madness of countless Christians before and then and now. Cruden was an example to show certain traits that was kept within bounds and openly recognized. Finney showed the spiritual conversion that shatters years of faithful service to God and Christ. The Lord's people are tried to the uttermost in this life. Copeland and all those like him seeking spiritual advantage and greatness under whatever name are treading on familiar ground.

4. In the case of King Saul in 1st Samuel we have a divine documented development of spiritual and natural insanity or madness. It needs little interpretation, just the slow and reflective reading testifies to us of many changes the soul and heart and spirit undergoes. It is not mere error or heresy or bad doctrine or such like, though plenty of those things exists. The spiritual state of Saul contingent on God's mercy or judgment is before us as warning and instruction. Even David's pretended madness to escape harm and death is not insanity in form but fear moved with wisdom, but lunacy in all rationale is of another spirit.

5. In the Apostle Paul we read of his many visions and revelations and his experience in Paradise leading to Satan's angel or messenger to trouble him to humility. This was a fascination to Swedenborg as it has been to many others. Swedenborg merged his own perceptions and delusions as Paul's experience and created countless issues. Paul shows and warns that the age to follow the Apostles were to be characterized with such Satanic power that it would appear hopeless, but in the end the truth and the gospel will prevail among true believers and followers of God.