Shekinah

[sheep wrecked]

Scotchman, your posts are currently being moderated, not deleted].

Thanks

(01-30-2010 01:16 PM)Scotchman Wrote:  

Quote:I think your charismatic roots are showing a bit Biggrin I have never seen the words "spiritual manifestation" in the Bible.

I was using it in its dictionary meaning. YES I learned it in the CM but NO, I am just using it literally as it means.

If you learned it in charis, knowing the movement is false, they why continue to promote their heresy?

The dictionary is not the Word of God. The Bible does not use the term, why should we? When you use a term like that, which is added to the text it allows people to dream up all kinds of weird stuff aka charismania.

Quote:And the cloud was not the spirit itself (as shown in the earlier verse). So the Kavod IS the invisible HS. BUT the HS can reveal itself in physical ways as in the Dove appearance upon Jesus and the Tongues of Fire upon the Disciples.

The Spirit is invisible but it can cause appearances as in those examples. These are for those who are there to see and Jesus said so himself.

I think you are reading more into the text than is stated, which is one of the major dangers of the charis movement. They place so much emphasis on the Holy Spirit, He becomes the force and the manifestations for their foundational understanding of God and His Word. This is just false.

The Bible says that the Holy appeared "like a dove" and "like tongues of fire", not that the Holy Spirit was manifested as such. There is a huge difference.

Quote:Actually, there is no such word as "shekinah" in the Bible. It is a middle ages kabbalistic addition. shekinah originated in the realm of kabbalah.

Scotchman:
Sorry, not true. I gave a verse above where Shekinah is used, but I also showed that the Kabbalist and Messianic misuse it as a noun instead of an adjective.

And this has cause false doctrine.


Unfortunately, the word shekinah does not appear in the Masoretic text or the Greek. It is a made up word. The word "shakan" is NOT shekinah.

Shekinah is a mystic/kabbalistic word which means the feminine presence of God. I don't think that is in the Bible If anyone should know that it's you ;)

Quote:The term “shekinah” is used within the Messianic movement to refer to the presence of God – or His “dwelling” in the Tabernacle. Shekinah is also used to define the glory of God within His Presence. Shekinah comes from Rabbinial Judaism and is a term that found it’s origins in kabbalah. The concept of shekinah has become so popular that it is used across the board in Christianity as well as Hebrew Roots. I think if people understood that shekinah is the feminine essence of God interwoven with the feminine Spirit of God, known as the “Mother Spirit”, they would probably run, not walk away from using it Lightning
[alternative transliterations of shekinah: shechinah, shekina, shechina, schechinah, sh'khinah (this variation is used by David Stern in his Complete Jewish Bible version)].Please note, in this first definition, it shows that shekinah comes from the Hebrew word “shk’n” [shaw-kan - H7931]. The word shawkan is used 92 times in the OT, but there is no such hebrew word called “shekinah” in the Bible No

The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. 2001-07.

Shekinah

(shk´n) (KEY) [Heb.,=dwelling, presence], in Judaism, term used in the Targum (Aramaic translation of the Hebrew Bible) and elsewhere to indicate the manifestation of the presence of God among people. Whenever the Hebrew text speaks of the presence of God in a way that implies certain human limitations, the Targum paraphrases by substituting the word Shekinah for the word God (e.g., “And I will cause my Shekinah to dwell,” in the Targum Onkelos). Although the Shekinah is rarely intended by the rabbis in the Talmud and Midrash as an intermediary between God and people, the word is sometimes used in such a manner that it cannot be identical with God, e.g., “God allows his Shekinah to rest.” The medieval Jewish philosophers, however, wishing to avoid the problems of anthropomorphic interpretation of this concept, posited a separate existence for the Shekinah, which played a minor role at best in their systems. In the kabbalah and other mystical works of the later medieval and modern periods, the Shekinah is given far more importance and is often treated as the consort of God who can only be reunited with God through human fulfillment of all the divine commandments, which would likewise signal the messianic age. 1
See S. Schechter, Aspects of Rabbinic Theology (1909, repr. 1961); G. Scholem, Major Trends in Jewish Mysticism (1946, repr. 1961); R. Patai, The Hebrew Goddess (1967).

http://www.bartleby.com/65/sh/Shekinah.html

Please note that “shekinah” is the feminine essence of God in kabbalah as found in this article:

Shekinah-Shakti

Shekinah: The Feminine Element in Divinity

Gershom Scholem: On the Mystical Shape of the Godhead, Schocken, 1991

VII

In conclusion, I would like to respond to a question that has no doubt occurred to a number of readers during the discussion of these notions of the feminine within the divine. Can the Shekhinah be described as a cosmic force in the same sense as we find the feminine in the image of Shakti in Indian Tantric religion? To my mind, I believe that we can discern quite clear differences between the two conceptions — differences no less profound than their affinities.

It is impossible to apply this to the Kabbalist schema without misconstruing the sense of the symbols. None of the Sepheroth appearing as male in these pairs could be identified with the masculine in Indian symbolism, albeit the idea of femininity as producing the motion of time may indeed correspond to an astonishing passage in Sefer ha-Bahir.

This passage describes the Shekhinah as the precious gem that brings forth the years i.e., time, which flows from the primal time gathered therein, but I am by no means certain that this primal time can be identified with eternity

On the other hand, when dealing with these comparisons, we must not forget that the Shekhinah is split in the Kabbalah, so that the active element within the feminine has been primarily absorbed in the symbolism of the upper Shekhinah. The latter is the womb of the Sefiroth, of the aeons and cycles of the worlds (shemitoth), while other aspects of Shakti, such as the eternal feminine and the destructive element, are expressed in the final Sefirah or Malkhuth. On the other hand, the notion of the masculine as purely inactive and passive, an idea that seems intrinsic to the doctrine of Shakti, is totally alien to the Kabbalah, in which the male is perceived as active and flowing.

http://www.psyche.com/psyche/txt/scholem_msog_194.html

Here is a common understanding by Judaism of “shekinah” and how some poor deceived soul is comparing shekinah to the presence of God/Christ in the NT. Also, it should be noted that in the Talmud/kabbalah, the Holy Spirit is considered feminine – there is a link between the “feminine essence” as found in the “shekinah” and the Holy Spirit Shocked6838


THE HOLY SHEKINAH SPIRIT

Among the Hebrews one of the traditional names of God is the Shekinah, and, interestingly, it is a feminine gender noun. Many Hebrews saw her as the mother or feminine aspect of God. The early scribes (later called rabbis) added Shekinah in biblical verses where the verb shakhan is used in relation to God. Shakhan literally means “to dwell” or “to live with”, or even “to pitch one’s tent.” The Shekinah means the God-Who-Dwells-Within, and developed primarily after the destruction of the Temple of Solomon in 587 BCE, especially as it proffered hope to a people lost in bitter exile. To console an Israel in Diaspora, the comforting, forgiving and loyal presence of the Shekinah emerged. In the Talmud it says: “They were exiled to Babylon, the Shekinah with them. They were exiled to Egypt, the Shekinah with them.” And, it says in Lamentations 1, 5, “Her children are gone into captivity,” and immediately after (1,6), “From Zion her splendour is departed.” (Note the use of “her” for God and “splendour” is also one of the ways to describe the Shekinah). Other terms referring to the Shekinah are “the glory” and “radiance”, and she was the cloud by day and pillar of fire by night that led the Israelites through the Sinai wilderness. She is also closely related to the Sophia tradition in the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament) in Proverbs and other books. Sophia (a Greek feminine noun) is the Wisdom aspect of God. As a Wisdom Teacher Jesus was very closely related to the Sophia Tradition.

The Shekinah eventually became an interchangeable term with the Holy Spirit in both Judaism and Christianity. She is often pictured as a bird or dove. In Christianity the Holy Spirit is seen as the Advocate, Guide and Comforter (John 14:16-26 and Acts 9:31), and we can clearly see the Judaic origins of this tradition. There is even a more direct connection to the Hebrew tradition of the Shekinah, as St. Paul, the former Pharisee, stresses the indwelling nature of the Holy Spirit throughout his famous passage in Romans 8: “But you are not in the flesh; you are in the Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you.” (Romans 8: 8) There is even a universalist tradition in some Hebrew Midrash writings: “I call heaven and earth to witness that whether it be Gentile or Israelite, man or woman, slave or handmaid, according to the deeds which he does, so will the Holy Spirit rest upon him.” This is reminiscent of John’s report of Jesus’ statements to Nicodemus, when Jesus said: “The wind [Spirit] blows where it chooses . . . ” (John 3:8), that is, the Holy Spirit will serve all peoples, not just Christians or Jews. Paul also offers a similar notion in Galatians 3:28: “There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave and free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.” And, it is well-established that both Paul and John frequently equated Jesus Christ with the Holy Spirit as seen in the Romans 8 passages and the Paraclete passages of John 14-16.

Call upon her for comfort, for advise, for blessing, and for guidance. She will only respond in love and radiant light.

http://shekinah.elysiumgates.com/

[Scotchman]

(01-30-2010 01:55 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  If you learned it in charis, knowing the movement is false, they why continue to promote their heresy?

I did not learn it in Charis. It is basic Hebrew from Bible School. The Pentecostals (PMs) would not like me teaching that Shekinah is NOT a Noun and therefore not the HS.

I think that my statements are not being read or understood by all clearly.

I am stating that YES Shekinah is from the Hebrew in the OT and it is not an invention of kabbalists. It is used to "DESCRIBE" the HS but it is NOT the Holy Spirit as the PM wrongly teaches.

This is simply a matter of people looking into their Bibles and reading it themselves. CORRECTLY.

Shekinah is an Adjective and should not be used as a noun!
Nothing special about Hebrew. It is a language like any other and you can verify this yourself. Most PMs learn these catch words to sound holy but have no idea how to even spell Shekinah.

I say, If you cant read hebrew you have no right claiming to be a scolar and teach it.

That really goes for any doctrine. I saw a guy at the spa today. Told me he was an ELDER. Yet admitted that he hardly ever studied his Bible. And in 5 minutes I learned he knew very little Doctrine of the Faith in an thorough or systematic function.

We should love our Bible
Read and STUDY our Bible.
We should know it better than any other topic.

Some reason, too many people are assuming that any doctrine I say which they don't like must be from some heresy movement.

Yet, most of it is very basic puritan theology. I dumped all my old bagages in 2005. I studied and got my ordination reinstated. And have been back in ministry. I have no ax to grind and no real heresy. I only seek promotion of the Bible as all Authority and Truth in Christ.

May God be Glorified! That is all.

[Scotchman]

RE: Shekinah
You should really stop deleting my posts in order to support your claims. I have now had a total of 15 responses deleted yet you keep your unsubstantiated rebuttals which slander me.

Shekinah is the feminine use of shekin which IS in the Bible and used regarding the Kavod (Glory) or appearance of of the Trinity in Power and Glory in the OT.

And you ARE right. I SHOULD know and do. That is why I give prooftexts. Here are examples of it's usage where Shekin (masculin) IS used.

Exodus 24:16 * וישׁכן כבוד־יהוה על־הר סיניהשׁביעי מתוך הענן׃
Exodus 24:16 * And the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai,

Exodus 25:8 * ועשׂו לי מקדשׁ ושׁכנתי בתוכם׃
Exodus 25:8 * And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.


Numbers 24:2 * וישׂא בלעם את־עיניו וירא את־ישׂראל שׁכן לשׁבטיו ותהי עליו רוח אלהים׃
Numbers 24:2 * And Balaam lifted up his eyes, and he saw Israel abiding in his tents according to their tribes; and the spirit of God came upon him.

Exodus 40:35 * ולא־יכל משׁה לבוא אל־אהל מועד כי־שׁכן עליו הענן וכבוד יהוה מלא את־המשׁכן׃
Exodus 40:35 * And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

Here are examples of the use of Shekin with various aspects of God.

the only thing perpetrated by the kabbalists is using it in the Feminine form to elevate the female, and to use it as a noun.

The word in the Bible PROPERLY used is MASCULINE and used as a Verb or Adjective. Dont use Kabbalists to mis apply a word. I know what the Kabbalists teach, as they live around us and I have heard their shiurim.

stick with the Biblical usage. And take a good sound course in biblical Hebrew. And focus on the etymology of Hebrew Roots. IT explains where Jesus and Paul derived so much NT doctrine from seemingly irrelavant verses sometimes. And find a Husband or Sound Preacher to take you through a course of Systematic Theology.

This has nothing to do with judaism or messies. It is Sound bible study and why the men who have done SOUND Bible Translations were more qualified than you or I.

If you invent a doctrine which the likes of Paul, Tyndale, or Spurgeon rejected.... Make sure that you are more qualified than the Teachers you contradict.

This will probably get deleted too, But I tried.

Good Bye. And please try and refrain from slander again.

As Vic said, Attack the Biblical point made and not the person pasting it. Because that is all I just did was to paste Scripture and show you what is there in plain view for all.

I am just glad that this forum handles Hebrew so that I can not honestly be mis-represented again.

Please keep true to the Written Word. Find a teacher and follow this with some real Scholarship. If you are not married then ask your dad or your Pastor. If you are instead acting as an independent women then it explains why this has gone nowhere.

I am not interested in arguing only in answering with Scripture. If that is not wanted, then I will depart.

[sheep wrecked]

(01-31-2010 10:16 AM)Scotchman Wrote:  RE: Shekinah
You should really stop deleting my posts in order to support your claims. I have now had a total of 15 responses deleted yet you keep your unsubstantiated rebuttals which slander me.

Shekinah is the feminine use of shekin which IS in the Bible and used regarding the Kavod (Glory) or appearance of of the Trinity in Power and Glory in the OT.

And you ARE right. I SHOULD know and do. That is why I give prooftexts. Here are examples of it's usage where Shekin (masculin) IS used.

Exodus 24:16 * וישׁכן כבוד־יהוה על־הר סיניהשׁביעי מתוך הענן׃
Exodus 24:16 * And the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai,

Exodus 25:8 * ועשׂו לי מקדשׁ ושׁכנתי בתוכם׃
Exodus 25:8 * And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.


Numbers 24:2 * וישׂא בלעם את־עיניו וירא את־ישׂראל שׁכן לשׁבטיו ותהי עליו רוח אלהים׃
Numbers 24:2 * And Balaam lifted up his eyes, and he saw Israel abiding in his tents according to their tribes; and the spirit of God came upon him.

Exodus 40:35 * ולא־יכל משׁה לבוא אל־אהל מועד כי־שׁכן עליו הענן וכבוד יהוה מלא את־המשׁכן׃
Exodus 40:35 * And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

Here are examples of the use of Shekin with various aspects of God.

the only thing perpetrated by the kabbalists is using it in the Feminine form to elevate the female, and to use it as a noun.

The word in the Bible PROPERLY used is MASCULINE and used as a Verb or Adjective. Dont use Kabbalists to mis apply a word. I know what the Kabbalists teach, as they live around us and I have heard their shiurim.

stick with the Biblical usage. And take a good sound course in biblical Hebrew. And focus on the etymology of Hebrew Roots. IT explains where Jesus and Paul derived so much NT doctrine from seemingly irrelavant verses sometimes. And find a Husband or Sound Preacher to take you through a course of Systematic Theology.

This has nothing to do with judaism or messies. It is Sound bible study and why the men who have done SOUND Bible Translations were more qualified than you or I.

If you invent a doctrine which the likes of Paul, Tyndale, or Spurgeon rejected.... Make sure that you are more qualified than the Teachers you contradict.

This will probably get deleted too, But I tried.

Good Bye. And please try and refrain from slander again.

As Vic said, Attack the Biblical point made and not the person pasting it. Because that is all I just did was to paste Scripture and show you what is there in plain view for all.

I am just glad that this forum handles Hebrew so that I can not honestly be mis-represented again.

Please keep true to the Written Word. Find a teacher and follow this with some real Scholarship. If you are not married then ask your dad or your Pastor. If you are instead acting as an independent women then it explains why this has gone nowhere.

I am not interested in arguing only in answering with Scripture. If that is not wanted, then I will depart.

I realized that this post was not answered and wanted to yet again show evidence that "shakan" is not "shekinah". The alternate spelling of "shakan" to "shekin" is just a way to validate a false concept, in my opinion.

One cannot add words to the Bible because of a later modification to try and reinterpret a word, just because it is the general consensus. It really does not matter how many scholars "prove" that "shakan" "really means" "shekinah", when the Bible never uses the word.

I also wanted to point out in the texts that were quoted, what actual Hebrew word is used.

Exodus 24:16 * וישׁכן כבוד־יהוה על־הר סיניהשׁביעי מתוך הענן׃
Exodus 24:16 * And the glory [kavod - H3519] of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai,


Exodus 25:8 * ועשׂו לי מקדשׁ ושׁכנתי בתוכם׃
Exodus 25:8 * And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell [shakan - H7931] among them.


Numbers 24:2 * וישׂא בלעם את־עיניו וירא את־ישׂראל שׁכן לשׁבטיו ותהי עליו רוח אלהים׃
Numbers 24:2 * And Balaam lifted up his eyes, and he saw Israel abiding [shakan - H7931] in his tents according to their tribes; and the spirit of God came upon him.

Exodus 40:35 * ולא־יכל משׁה לבוא אל־אהל מועד כי־שׁכן עליו הענן וכבוד יהוה מלא את־המשׁכן׃
Exodus 40:35 * And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode [shakan - H7931] thereon, and the glory [kabod - H3519] of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

Please note that the examples given do not in any way show the use of "shekinah" nor does the use of "kabod" or "shakan" in these texts prove that "shekinah" is meant. Again, the word "shekinah" is a term developed by kabbalists to refer to the feminine presence of God, which we know is an occult view of God, not a Biblical one.

This quote from one of the articles referred to in an earlier post that identifies where the word "skekinah" originated and was inserted long after the Bible was completed:

Quote:THE HOLY SHEKINAH SPIRIT

Among the Hebrews one of the traditional names of God is the Shekinah, and, interestingly, it is a feminine gender noun. Many Hebrews saw her as the mother or feminine aspect of God. The early scribes (later called rabbis) added Shekinah in biblical verses where the verb shakhan is used in relation to God.

http://shekinah.elysiumgates.com/

[Benny]

As a general comment on what I have read,

No offense, but talking about words being in the 'bible' and not in the bible validating or refuting the concept? More important is IF the concept is there...if the concept is there, the existence of the word is immaterial. Depending on what christian group you belong to, any of a number of concepts could be said not to exist simply on the lack of the words, if this reasoning is used.

As far as Kabbalah and the Occult...which came first, a man free of sin or a man with a sin? It is two opposite sides of the spectrum...are we to say that dreams, angels, demons, etc don't exist? They are in the writings 'OT' and 'NT', correct?

Be well.

[Vic]

(03-10-2011 01:30 AM)Benny Wrote:  As a general comment on what I have read,

No offense, but talking about words being in the 'bible' and not in the bible validating or refuting the concept? More important is IF the concept is there...if the concept is there, the existence of the word is immaterial. Depending on what christian group you belong to, any of a number of concepts could be said not to exist simply on the lack of the words, if this reasoning is used.

As far as Kabbalah and the Occult...which came first, a man free of sin or a man with a sin? It is two opposite sides of the spectrum...are we to say that dreams, angels, demons, etc don't exist? They are in the writings 'OT' and 'NT', correct?

Be well.

Almost like which came first the chicken or the egg? Actually if one does indepth research on the kabbalah, when it first was brought into the Judiasm, it was viewed as the writings and beliefs of gnostics, and of the mystics and the occult. That is info from Jewish sources.

http://www.seekgod.ca/embracnokab.htm

[Benny]

Hi Vic,

Just a quick post:

you said:
"Actually if one does indepth research on the kabbalah, when it first was brought into the Judiasm, it was viewed as the writings and beliefs of gnostics, and of the mystics and the occult. That is info from Jewish sources."

I disagree with the statement that is from the gnostics... from Jewish sources...traditional jewish sources date the kabbalah back as Adam, but specifically point to Avraham as the author of a much larger work [of what is now condensely written] by the name of Sefer Yetsirah. Likewise, a work like the Zohar, ascribed to the school Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai...some try to say that R Moshe de leon of spain wrote it. However, Rabbi Ariel bar Tzadok of 'kosher torah' emphatically states that the systems of kabbalah in the works of R Moshe de Leon, and that in the Zohar, are completely different.
Another point of understanding is, what is Torah Kabbalah? For today, Kabbalah is 'in vogue'. If we believe that a spiritual world exist, as the OT/NT attest to, then how do we understand it? How do we interact with it? Let this suffice.
Since I am not an adept in Torah Kabbalah, I am unqualified to to debate this issue aside from what I have mentioned.

Be well.

[Rose of Shushan]

Quote:If we believe that a spiritual world exist, as the OT/NT attest to, then how do we understand it? How do we interact with it? Let this suffice.

The Bible is clear that we are not to meddle with the occult spirit world.
Lev 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Lev 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.

Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Deu 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Deu 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Isa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

We also know what happened to Saul when he tried to contact the dead.

[Benny]

Rose of Shushan,

You are mixing up ideas.
Occult is the dealing with the forces referred to in your response, not with angels, like gavriel michael etc as often dealt with in Revelation, jesus with elijah and moses, daniel with gavriel, etc. What with Adam, Abraham, isaac, jacob, Moses, joshua, isaiah ezekiel, daniel, etc.
It is a very big difference.

[Rose of Shushan]

The instances of angels that you refer to in the Biblical accounts are instances initiated by God not man himself.God does send His messengers or angels.But when we speak of kabbalah and associated practices it is man initiating encounters or experiences.