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Letter from Stan Eisenberg

Posted to Art Konrad's Forum

               To Whom It May Concern:

               I am Stan Eisenberg, a Messianic Jewish Rabbi. I have written this email as a response to a forum posting that I recently became aware of. A posting written by James Scott Trimm as his response to an inquiry put forth by Art Konrad in a forum. In James Scott Trimm's posting he wrote of a Messianic Jewish congregation and its leader. I was that Messianic Jewish leader and the posting contains half truths, lies, and slander. In order to provide continuity, I have included Mr. Konrad's inquiry at the end of this email. I apologize for the wordiness of my email, but I want to insure that my words convey as clearly as possible what I mean

               Many who read this email may feel hurt, deceived, angry, or other emotions, either against Scott Trimm or me. We are taught in Romans 8:28 that in the middle of turmoil, upheaval, or hurt, "G-d causes all things to work together for good; to those who love G-d, to those who are called according to His purpose."

               I knew James Scott Trimm as Scott Trimm from the latter half of the 1980'sto the early 1990's. I will therefore refer to him as Scott Trimm in this communication. I am also well acquainted with his actions and their results during that time period. I will provide more detailed information about that time period later in this response. The only contact I have had with Scott Trimm since the early 1990's is a few emails and, I believe, two phone calls within the past year. Within the last two to three years I have had reasonably frequent communication with his first wife before she recently passed away.

               It would be an error to write that I am completely objective about Scott Trimm. My objectivity concerning Scott Trimm has been and still is somewhat colored by my experience with him and his family during the time he was attending the Messianic Jewish congregation he wrote about in his posting. But facts are facts and I will relate the facts of action and
circumstance-facts that can be confirmed by others. I will not color the
facts with feelings.

               Since Scott Trimm has made certain statements in his posting, he has made those areas open and vulnerable for a full and truthful response. I have not changed any wording or spelling in Scott Trimm's posting. I have separated phrases, sentences, or sections in order to respond to what was written by Scott Trimm. To clearly distinguish between his writing and my response, I have enclosed Scott Trimm's comments in double angle brackets (<<   >>) and labeled his posting comments and my response with our names.

               The Scriptures instruct and command us to be discerning, perceptive, and very mathematical in analyzing facts and circumstance.
Deuteronomy 32:7 commands us to be intelligently informed of the past.
Luke 20:23 informs us that Yeshua perceived the craftiness of the ones
pretending to be righteous in order to catch Him.

In 1 Kings 3:9 Solomon asked G-d to "... give therefore Thy servant an
understanding heart to judge Thy people, that I may discern between good
and evil:...."
To those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, let them see, hear and
perceive. I leave you with Matthew 7:15-20.

               =========  Start of posting with response ==============
               <<From: James Trimm <jstrimm@h...>
               Date: Sat Apr 7, 2001 6:45am
               Subject: [nazarene] History of SANJ and I

               Someone on another list asked about my background and that of SANJ as well as our goals.>>

               RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
               Since I do not know what other list Scott wrote about, I have sent this response to many individuals.

               <<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
               I thought I would post the reply here as well:

               Myself I am a Nazarene Jew.  I was a Rabbinic Jew until I found Yeshua to be the Messiah of Judaism when I was 18 (I am now 34).>>

               RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
               Not true. Scott Trimm may have practiced Rabbinic Judaism, but according to investigative documentation, that can be viewed at the website noted at the end of this paragraph, Scott Trimm was not born Jewish. The website also contains documentation that indicates Scott Trimm has no Jewish ancestry at least back three or four generations on either his mother or father's side.
               In addition, I have in my possession emails from his first wife that also indicate he was not born Jewish. and that his mother denies any Jewish
background in Scott Trimm's family. Investigative documentation on Scott
Trimm can be viewed at the following website.
               http://home.flash.net/~purnhrt/truth/

               <<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
               At first I was a fish out of water.  I tried attending a Christian church on Sundays an my old Synagogue on Friday nights.  This did not work at all.  To my old friends at the Synagogue I was an apostste Christian and to my new aquaintances at the "Church" I was a Judaizer.  The leaders of the Church directed me to a Messianic Jewish Congregation. >>

               RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
               Concerning the Messianic Jewish congregation he wrote about. When Scott Trimm was 18 to 20 years old (1984-1986) he was living in the Fort Worth Dallas metroplex area. During the 1980's and early 1990's there were only two known functioning Messianic Jewish congregations in the Fort Worth-Dallas, Texas, metroplex area. One in Dallas-Baruch HaShem
Congregation; Messianic leader Marty Waldman; and one in Fort Worth--Beth Yeshua Congregation, of which I was a co-founder in 1979 and the Messianic leader until 1997. Therefore I have first hand knowledge of Beth Yeshua Congregation's vision and operation, as well as first hand knowledge of Scott Trimm's involvement with that Messianic Jewish congregation he wrote about; namely Beth Yeshua Congregation of Fort Worth, Texas.

               <<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
               .This particular congregation was very Christian.  They met on Friday nights and Sundays (this was changed to Saturday after a few years.)>>

               RABBI EISENERG RESPONSE:
               It is not true that Beth Yeshua Congregation was very Christian. Many Rabbinic synagogues, or Talmudic synagogues as I call them, meet on Friday evening, and/or Saturday morning, and hold Hebrew school lessons on Sunday morning. They even call the Sunday classes "Sunday School." Based on Scott Trimm's comment and logic, that would make many Talmudic Jewish synagogues very Christian. This is obviously not a true statement, and does not apply to Beth Yeshua Congregation, the congregation that Scott Trimm wrote about.
               >From 1979 to approximately 1986 Beth Yeshua Messianic Jewish
Congregation met on Friday  evenings and had Scripture classes on Sunday morning with Midrash (Scripture discussions) Sunday afternoon. The Friday evening service became very difficult for a number of attendees to participate in after a week of work, especially those with children. So in 1986 or 1987 the congregation as a whole decided to move services from Friday evening to Shabbat (Saturday) morning .The Midrash was moved to Shabbat afternoon.

               <<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE
               They deemed me a legalist for not eating the pork products they put out in the covered-dish dinner.>>

               RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
              This is not true and is slanderous. Because our vision and ministry was to proclaim the message of salvation through the Blood Atonement of Israel's Messiah, Yeshua, within a Jewish Biblical, cultural, and traditional
context, and to develop a Messianic Jewish lifestyle among those who
attended the congregation, we never allowed nor had pork or shell fish
products in the synagogue or at any congregational activity. Many of those
attending the congregation, Jewish and non-Jewish, didn't eat pork or
shellfish products at home, including my family. Many attendees were very
detailed to insure that they did not ingest pork or shellfish products. For
example: a few families were planning on purchasing gelatin in bulk. They
called Nabisco company to investigate the contents of the gelatin they had
planned to purchase. When they found out that the gelatin could be from
horse or pig hoofs, they never ordered the gelatin. We even checked the
ingredient labels of so-called imitation seafood salad sold in the grocery
store. They very often contain a small amount of real crab, other shell fish
products, or natural flavoring. Therefore, since we were not eating pork or shellfish products, it stands to reason that we would not call Scott Trimm a legalist. Matthew 7:1-2 teaches us that with the same measurement we judge, we will be judged. This explanation exposes the lie and slander of Scott Trimm's statement.

               <<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
               And they shunned me for studying the Talmud.>>

               RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
               Again not true. Scott was never shunned for studying Talmud. I personally counseled him to put as much, if not more, time in studying The Scripture; Tenach (Old Testament) and Brit Chadashah (New Testament). Others in the congregation also discussed with Scott the need to study the Word of G-d as intensely as he studied Talmud. He was never shunned for studying Talmud. Scott opened this area by writing this statement.
He was not shunned but asked to leave the congregation because he would not listen to Biblical counsel concerning his responsibilities as a husband and a father. He was sending his first wife, who was legally blind, out to work while he spent time at their apartment studying and watching his young daughter and hard core pornographic videos. My wife and I were called to their apartment by his first wife who was upset about the videos. As we spot checked the videos it was obvious that they definitely had hard core pornographic content. This makes my wife and me first hand witnesses to this fact in accordance with Deuteronomy 19:15, with reference to Matthew 18:15-17;."...by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed."

Later his first wife pleaded with my wife and me to help her get out of their apartment because Scott was abusing her and she was concerned for herself and her daughter. We helped her to a safe house. Scott then stalked my family and me until he and I had a confrontation at the curb in front of my home in Fort Worth. After that episode, I had little if any contact with him.

               RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
               Not true. Beth Yeshua Congregation was not and never was a Baptist mission to reach my Jewish people. In the 1970's and the first half of the 1980's there were no Messianic Jewish yeshivot (schools for study) in existence. I did study at the Baptist Seminary in Fort Worth Texas from 1975 to 1979 and earned a Master of Divinity degree. Before my graduation I had already been called by HaShem to reach my people from within a Jewish Biblical, cultural, and traditional context. That was always the vision of Beth Yeshua Congregation while I was the Messianic leader. We had training classes to teach the attendees to know, understand, and practice Biblical Judaism. The classes covered respecting Torah, how to participate in a Talmudic and Messianic Jewish service, lifestyle in the home, incorporating proper Jewish Biblical and secular terminology into their daily lives, and much more. The congregation was not by any stretch of the imagination a Christian Baptist church, except maybe in Scott Trimm's mind,.
Beth Yeshua Congregation was a full fledged intense Messianic Jewish congregation. Because of our vision, congregational and individually, we were very often told by well meaning yet uninformed Christians that we were too Jewish. Scott Trimm's statement is not a true statement.

               <<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
               and that there were only four other Jews there including the leader>>

               RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
               A half-truth. Beth Yeshua Congregation, the congregation Scott Trimm wrote about, had a Jewish constituency of between 33 to 50%. A few were raised with a knowledge and practice of their Judaism. Many who came to the congregation discovered later that they had documented Jewish heritage. Prior to 1973 there were approximately four (4) functioning Messianic Jewish congregations in the United States. As a result many parents and or grandparents who became believers had no Jewish lifestyle congregation or assembly to go to. They were assimilated into the church. Many Jewish people who were believers in the Messiah Yeshua (they would have known Him then as Jesus) and lived in anti Jewish areas denied their Jewish heritage because of fear of anti Jewish acts against them. Their descendants would not have practiced nor known of their Jewishness.
These are the individuals who became aware of their previously hidden
Jewish heritage. There was a significant percentage of these Jewish
individuals attending Beth Yeshua Congregation's activities.

               <<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
               Only the leader had ever practiced Judaism and then it had been Reformed.>>

               RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
                Not true. During my childhood and teenage years I attended a Conservative Jewish synagogue located in the Bronx, New York City.. My parents are Conservative. I was Bar Mitzvah in a Conservative Jewish ceremony and continued to attend Conservative Jewish synagogues where they were present.

               <<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
               He had converted to Catholicism years earlier to mary his Catholic wife, then gotten involved in the Occult and then gotten "Saved" thru Jews for Jesus and become a Baptist minister.>>

               RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
                Another half truth. I never converted to Catholicism. My wife was never Catholic. She was raised in a Protestant denomination and did take Roman Catholic catechism as a teenager. She never finished that course of study because she was told to leave as a result of her asking too many questions the priest could not or would not answer. When we were married, she chose to convert to and practice the Conservative Jewish faith. In the area we lived at the time, there was only an Orthodox Jewish synagogue. We attended their services and spoke with the rabbi. Because my wife grew up in a Protestant denomination, the strictness of Orthodox Judaism was more than she wanted to work with. So we attended a Reform synagogue 37 miles from where we lived. Although her conversion studies and subsequent formal registered conversion to Judaism was accomplished in the Reform Jewish synagogue, we both practiced Conservative Judaism. In our search for spiritual reality, which we were not taught about in Talmudic Judaism, we were invited by a Roman Catholic couple to get involved in the occult, which we did, but not to the extent of Satan worship. I do have testimony however that Scott Trimm was involved in Satan worship. After awhile we were guided by this Roman Catholic couple to the Romanist church. It was at that time we took catechism, but never converted. We were directed
to a Bible study where literature from the Campus Crusades for Christ
ministry was lying around. The material contained the message of Messiah's
Blood Atonement. We recognized the Truth of that message. In 1973 we
confessed our sins, accepted Yeshua as Israel's Messiah, and His Blood
Atonement to wash away our sins. The terms I use here were not the terms we understood then. We never gave up the Jewish practices we were observing. There was a cultural conflict present because of the teachings of the church, and what we saw and practiced in Biblical Judaism. A short time
later we understood that it was alright to accept Yeshua as The Jewish
Messiah and still remain Biblically, culturally, and traditionally Jewish. We have practiced Biblical Judaism since that time. Sometime later I answered the call to preach. Yes, we were attending a Baptist church at the time-I mentioned earlier that there were only 4 functioning Messianic Jewish congregations in the U.S. and not one of them was in the Long Island NY area. Therefore my association was with the Southern Baptist denomination, but I still considered myself Jewish and shared that viewpoint any time I could.

               <<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
                He did however direct me to the local Baptist Seminary Library where I spent literally HOURS trying to make sense of it all.  I researched the "early church" and sought out Hebrew and Aramaic sources for the New Testament.  I soon discoverred that the original Jewish followers of Yeshua had not been early Christians, but a Jewish sect called "Nazarenes".  I learned that these Nazarenes continued to observe Torah and to practice
Judaism while accepting Yeshua, not as the founder of a New Religion, not as the "Christ" of Christianity, but as the Messiah of Judaism.  I learned
everything I could about them.  I also learned everthing I could about
Judaism as it relates to the "New Testament".  And I traced down the Hebrew and Aramaic manuscripts of the New Testament. Although I continued to fellowship within Messianic Judaism I began calling myself a "Nazarene Jew" and showing photo copies of things the "Church Fathers" had said about these ancient Jewish followers of Yeshua.  At one point the leader told me I was crazy.>>

               RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE;
                I never told Scott he was crazy. I counseled him to spend as much if not more time in the Scripture, and to find a job to support his legally blind first wife and their daughter. He refused..

               <<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
                In 1995 I earned my doctorate in Semitic Studies.>>

               RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE::
               I believe the above statement is not true. Please note the following timing. Scott started with Beth Yeshua Congregation in Fort Worth, Texas, around 1986 or 1987. During the time he was attending Beth Yeshua Congregation he was not attending college. By 1990 or1991 Scott Trimm was asked to leave Beth Yeshua Congregation (the reasons are noted above) and within a year we had no further contact with him. To earn a Doctorate Degree, an individual needs to earn a Bachelor's degree that normally takes a four year course of study. I have heard of individuals finishing a 4 year study program in slightly under three years. If we assume he started a Bachelor's Degree program in 1991, he would have earned the Bachelor's Degree by 1994. That means Scott Trimm would have had to start a Master's degree program by late 1994. A Master's degree is a 3 year program. Such a program could conceivably be completed in approximately two and 1/2 years. That brings us to an earned Master's degree by 1996. A Doctorate Degree requires at least 2 years of study, that possibly could be completed with much effort in about 1-1/2 years.. That brings the timing to1997 or 1998. The timing doesn't allow a Doctorate Degree to be earned by Scott Trimm by 1995.

               <<SCOTT TRIMM WROTE:
                 The same year I joined an internet listserver called roots-of-faith which discussed Christian origins (It went down in 1996). The Nazarenes were a  major topic on the list so one day I took a gamble and posted a message asking how many people regarded themselves as modern Nazarenes.  Several replied back that they did to my pleasant surprise.  At about that time I met a web designer named Eric Sandquist and we set up a website to promote the idea.  The Website was a HUGE success (113,507 hits to date)  so we put up a number of our own listservers as well as many sub-websites.  They werealso a BIG success.  By 1999 there were a number of Nazarene assemblies meeting around the world and that year we held our first annual conference (Netzarim '99).  My personal goals are the restoration of the Nazarene Sect of Judaism, the restoration of the Hebrew and Aramaic New Testament and the clarification of understanding of the NT in light of its Jewish roots.  James Trimm >>

               RABBI EISENBERG RESPONSE:
               In conclusion. Scott Trimm's personal goals may be what he states above, but from experience with him and his first wife; a little experience with his present wife before they were married while I was still in Fort Worth, Texas; my communication with his first wife within the last two years before she passed away, I must conclude that there are hidden ulterior motives in Scott Trimm's goals.

Other Articles

Doctor James Scott Trimm  

    James Trimm as Rabbi Yosef  

 Doctor James Trimm's Diploma  

    Trimm Critics  

    Stan Eisenberg Letter

James Trimm's Diploma Revisited

 Part 2: The Four Letters

 Phillip Arnn Email Correspondence

Doctor James Trimm's "Jewish" School & International Beit Din

Saint John Chrysostom Theological Seminary  

    Table of Credentials  

MBI Yeshiva & The Hargis Clan  

A Closer Look at David & Don Hargis

    Hargis Timelines

    Hargis Roles

Marian Hargis & Linda C Hargis & Linda G Hargis

NEWSFLASH! 

MBI NEWSFLASH!

HARGIS NEWSFLASH!

NEWSFLASH! > Nazarene Fraud Victim Forum

NEWSFLASH! > Union of Two Unions

Related >The James Trimm & Michael Rood Factor

Michael Rood & James Trimm & The WAY

Copyright . All articles are the sole property of SeekGod.ca and Vicky Dillen. All Scripture King James Version unless otherwise stated.

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